BA - Future Developments

Am a bit worried about what to expect from any BA development at all as nothing seems to be happening except the appearance of the much slower, non-metric and more tragically  NON- Anti-Aliased AECO Sim. (even though the current BA AA is still limited on a very few Radeon cards and the entire Bentley organization blissfully oblivious of the damaging consequence to design production).

Also it seems almost as if BA is not being updated because it´s being stuffed into Aeco Sim regardless of performance setbacks.

We would have expected a state of the art release of BA by now and the AA issue solved for all cards by means of in-house drivers or better understanding of existing ones.

Furthermore we would have enjoyed better graphics all round considering all the hardware enhancements since BA's inception.

Architects rely on seeing what they are designing whilst they are doing it, which should be the first prerequisite of BIM , then comes the plumbing.

Amalgamating static software programs is not helping development, perhaps if someone at Bentley would look at the AA in Rhino5beta and all the BIM modelling add-ons that are being updated on a weekly basis they might understand the dynamics we are missing.

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  • I'm not sure I completely understand what you mean by this - "...nothing seems to be happening except the appearance of the much slower, non-metric and more tragically  NON- Anti-Aliased AECO Sim".  

    ABD allows you to open in an Architecture-only environment if you so choose, and on my machine I don't see any noticeable difference performance-wise compared to Bentley Architecture.  There are (I believe) five Metric datasets slated to be ready when ABD is released.  

    Regarding anti-alias, what are you finding that's missing?  I see the same options in the Preferences dialog as prior versions.

    As far as BA not being updated in general, that's just not accurate - there's a new Slab tool; new Roof Builder & modification tools; new Hand Rail tool; and a variety of new components such as penetrations, toilet partitions, furniture, fire specialties, ladders, elevator dorrs, etc.   And as part of "the package", we now include a series of Structural and HVAC modeling tools as well.  Plus, all ABD disciplines take full advantage of core enhancements such as DV Callouts, HyperModels, Clash Detection, etc.    I realize none of this is relating to the AA aspect, but to be honest, that's just not a very common topic.



  • Hold on a bit , Steve, are you talking about BA or ABD , are you saying that all the BA improvements made during the last year now reside in ABD, a program entirely without Anti-Alias or is that going to be fixed?

    There is an Anti-Alias button, it simply does nothing, I just can't understand how anyone who takes his work seriously can use it without AA unless they are using special anti-freak-out glasses.

    MstnSS3beta has the same problem, all I have been on about all this time is that without AA you don`t have a fully functional program .

    As BA does have AA limited to a few select Radeon cards I manage to keep on working on large scale BA - without it I would have to give it up entirely hence my concern is for BA specifically and there does not seem to be an upgrade since 2/2/2011 - it sort of makes AA a very topical topic and one that may make all else moot until it is made priority number one.

  • Arkitron

    From what I understand BA is being replaced by Bentley Building Designer, .... there is an architectural install of BBD, which is being referred to as Architectural (Bentley) Building Designer..  .... ie ABD for short

    AECO Sim is a completely different product: more for building services and environmental analysis/performance work.

    I've been using Microstation/BA with Radeon cards for many years and never really had any issues with AA.

    I've got a few (on-going gripes) with some odd effects now and again related to perspectives not updating properly. The 'Catalyst' installer/optimiser thing that comes with Radeon cards is a complete disaster! Avoid this thing like the plague.

    I'm not sure what cards and specs machines you are using????????

    Again, I sympathise, but have also used Microstation/BA with Radeon cards in many different companies and AA was never really an issue. So I can only guess this is a 'localised' problem with your set up.

    Regards

    Danny Cooley

    Freelance AEC CAD/BIM Technician Architecture, MEP & Structural  ..... (& ex Low Carbon Consultant, ..... because they weren't that bothered!)

    OBD Update 10, Windows 10 Pro, HP Z4-G4, 64Gb, Xeon 3.6GHz, Quadro M4000

  • That is just the point, Radeons work for BA well enough if you know which setup to use.

    ABD and V8ss3beta don't produce AA at all- at first I thought it was a way to stop professional use of free betas and now I see that the developers don't have a glue that the AA is missing- what's  worse is that they are not even alarmed by it.

    There was some talk years ago that they were contemplating working on their own in-house drivers to circumvent the obvious conflicts and that has not materialized either.

    The outcome for me is very simple for any architectural program and that is if there is no AA,  the software is unworkable- I certainly don't think it can be overstated - I'm spending so much time and money just to get the right hardware for BA and now ABD has blocked out AA completely.

  • Hello again

    Sorry to hear you are having these issues. I've toyed around with the demos/previews of the new, pending SS and BBD, and haven't had any issues with the graphics. Things look fine. With the very latest release graphics performance has noticeably increased. I can only suggest taking up these issues in the related forums. IMHO most graphics related glitches are due to the drivers from AMD/ATI and Nvidia. They are mainly concerned with games, and clearly aren't bothered about the performance/issues in relation to CAD software. They 'claim' that if you are using a CAD app, you should get a 'workstation class' graphics card (at about 3-4 times the price!). Supposedly these have drivers that have been checked and optimised for various CAD apps. However, I've had a couple of these cards, and frankly didn't notice any difference in relation to performance and stability/gliches compared to the consumer/gamer cards. Maybe for some MCAD apps, there is a noticeable improvement.

    Again, sorry to hear of your problems/gliches. Though I can't see it really being a problem with Microstation/BBD per say, as I haven't had any problems with AA, and many other people are not reporting such problems. I guess that's not very comforting. I can only suggest taking this up directly with Bentley Tech Support and clearly running through your system/set up/settings/graphics card. I assume you're using a fairly beefy card?

    Regards

    Danny Cooley

    Freelance AEC CAD/BIM Technician Architecture, MEP & Structural  ..... (& ex Low Carbon Consultant, ..... because they weren't that bothered!)

    OBD Update 10, Windows 10 Pro, HP Z4-G4, 64Gb, Xeon 3.6GHz, Quadro M4000

  • Hello

    Apologies for my earlier post .... which was not correct

    AECOsim is NOT 'a completely different product: more for building services and environmental analysis/performance work.' as I stated

    The situation is (or will be) that there is

    AECOsim Building Designer (replacing BA and Bentley Structural and Mechanical and Electrical .... now all rolled in to one, with different installations/configurations if you want to focus on primarily just one of those)

    Which is probably what people mean should the be referring to ABD ... short for AECOsim Building Designer

    AND, ..... 2 other products

    AECOsim Compliance Manager and AECO Energy Simulator ...... these would be the ones that are more for ' more for building services and environmental analysis/performance work.'

    Sorry for the confusion

    www.bentley.com/.../aecosim+overview.htm

    Regards

    Danny Cooley

    Freelance AEC CAD/BIM Technician Architecture, MEP & Structural  ..... (& ex Low Carbon Consultant, ..... because they weren't that bothered!)

    OBD Update 10, Windows 10 Pro, HP Z4-G4, 64Gb, Xeon 3.6GHz, Quadro M4000

Reply
  • Hello

    Apologies for my earlier post .... which was not correct

    AECOsim is NOT 'a completely different product: more for building services and environmental analysis/performance work.' as I stated

    The situation is (or will be) that there is

    AECOsim Building Designer (replacing BA and Bentley Structural and Mechanical and Electrical .... now all rolled in to one, with different installations/configurations if you want to focus on primarily just one of those)

    Which is probably what people mean should the be referring to ABD ... short for AECOsim Building Designer

    AND, ..... 2 other products

    AECOsim Compliance Manager and AECO Energy Simulator ...... these would be the ones that are more for ' more for building services and environmental analysis/performance work.'

    Sorry for the confusion

    www.bentley.com/.../aecosim+overview.htm

    Regards

    Danny Cooley

    Freelance AEC CAD/BIM Technician Architecture, MEP & Structural  ..... (& ex Low Carbon Consultant, ..... because they weren't that bothered!)

    OBD Update 10, Windows 10 Pro, HP Z4-G4, 64Gb, Xeon 3.6GHz, Quadro M4000

Children
  • Kind of you to respond- I do like ABD, it has a lot of cross party potential and enjoy working in Imperial for the time being.

    It seems to me that the AA situation is more murky than I imagined, am a bit confused at what you mean by not having graphic issues with ABD- as a power user for over 15 years I'm used to having AA in accelerated shaded views so that I can see what my buildings look like whilst I am designing them so I'm pretty finicky.

    Most people can't see the differance between a 16X AA accelerated view and 1X AA especially when looking in iso- I have many, many machines in my arsenal to deal with previous AA issues since XM, even used ATI Fires and on my last remaing machine that still does have AA, a big Radeon ,and ABD looks much too rough in accelerated views for my purposes .

    Would be very much interested to find out whether the AA you are having is better than the one I'm getting from ABD at the moment especially if it is NVidia - I suspect it might be the usual case of it looks good enough to me at Bentley again- I happen to have a dual NVGF590 for GPU accelerated real time rendering and ABD comes out pretty yukky.

  • Danny, your second post is more accurate - ABD is short for AECOsim Building Designer, and is essentially a combination of the four products you mentioned along with a number of enhancements and changes.

    Arkitron, I think Danny's replies are tying in with what I mentioned at the end of my last post - AA has never been a common topic here or in Support.  So if the graphics results you're seeing are, as you described, "unworkable", I can only guess there are external factors coming into play.   If it was that bad for the general user base I think it's safe to say that it *would* be a common topic.    :)



  • If this is all the AA I will be getting in future, ABD will be practically useless to me , I'm sorry you are not heeding  my somewhat extended experience on the matter, all I can say is that your users are not bothered about it for some other lesser profound reason - I have gone to great lengths to expose how serious the matter is to me and have made  my arguments - the rest is up to Bentley Systems - I have an AA working copy of BA and I will use the AAless ABD for drafting - you are most welcome to skype and show me evidence of AA in ABD but for now I am most skeptical considering my own evidence sitting before me.

  • I have been using BA and AecoSim with a Nvidia Quadra FX 3700

    and also a gaming Geforce 8800 GTX and get good images with both.

    Maybe a picture of what you are seeing would help.

  • Here are 3 screen captures illustrating the problem I am having so much trouble with conveying to Bentley Systems for so many years , so much equipment. and so much strain- you will have to cut and paste the urls in your browser - will provide more if needed when I get the GB data set for ABD.

    Probably the same AA VGA card conflicts are also responsible for many of the other screen rotation glitches that seem to be occurring.

    http://www.arkitron.com/BAradeonMachineScreenShot.jpg

    http://www.arkitron.com/BAnVidiaGTX590MachineScreenShot.jpg

    http://www.arkitron.com/ABDradeonMachineScreenShot.jpg

    Steve, I hope this will convince you that this is a very big problem and has to be shown to the right dept. before too many users are left lacking because nobody wants  to recognize the conflicts and tackle the issue of VGA drivers that work on all cards , just because people are not aware of the shortfall does not mean we can change the situation in time for the release of ABD.