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System head curve

Hi all,

I am trying to make system head curve for transmission pipeline which has flow control valve and software is giving un logic curve. I think this due to the FCV. So kindly what is the sugessted solution to make system head curve?

Regards

Eng.Sayed Elhagar 

Parents
  • Thanks a lot Scott

    What i understand from your answer

    I can make follow one of two ways to calculate system head curve.

    1- make FCV inactive then i can plot curve easy as normal based on tank on downstream of FCV

    OR

    2- i can replace FCV with junction which shall have demand equal to FCV setting and delete tank downstream of FCV, then by using PDD equation i can plot system head curve

    Kindly correct my understanding if it is worng. In can my understanding is correct, do you think that system head curve in both abovementioned two ways will be equal

    Regards

    Eng.Sayed Elhagar

  • Dear Dr Tom

    FCV will be real, and i am using them to control the filling of 23 tanks

    Kindly clarify what is the mean of "curve is only valid up to the setting on the FCV".

    Regards

    Eng.Sayed Elhagar

  • I'd need to know a little more about the system. Is this a big regional system with FCV's at turnouts from a transmission main? Is this a small system with FCV's on rooftop tanks at houses? Are the 23 tanks roughly at the same elevation and service the same pressure zone? Are there 23 separate pressure zones? Are these top fill or bottom fill tanks? Can't you use an altitude valve to close off the tank fill line when it's full and won't open until the tank level drops?

    My concern is that depending on how the system is operated, you may have 2^23 system head curves. One for all 23 tanks filling, one for tank A off and 22 others filling, one for Tank B off and 22 others filling, etc. Once a valve closes the system (and the system head curve) changes.

  • Dear Dr Tom

    Dear Bentley

    My model is Main Pump Station which shall be used to fill a proposed 23 underground irrigation tanks. The 23 irrigation tank is sized based on two day storage, half of each tank capacity shall be used within 4 hours for landscape irrigation and the other half kept for the second day. The main pump station is designed based on one day irrigation demand and 16 hr pumping time. When i tried to fill the tanks within pumping hours some tanks filled very rapid while other takes longer time than required and i got unlogic results and due to this i put flow control valve at inlet of each tank. I attached the model for your review and advise.

    Regards

    Eng.Sayed Elhagar 

    Final With FCV Valves.rar
  • I looked at your model and think I see what you are trying to do.

    First, I'll assume that you have individual pumps to take water out of the tanks during irrigation times.

    It looks as if the transmission system is one pressure zone and the area is relatively flat.

    Flow control valves would work but they are a relatively expensive solution. There is nothing wrong with having some tanks fill faster than others as long as they all eventually fill. An altitude valve an altitude valve. This will shut off the flow when the tank is full.

    To better model the tanks, don't have the pipes come directly in and out of the tank but place a node in front of the tank and connect that single pipe to the tank. Put a check valve on the line coming into that node unless water can flow from the tank back into the system.

    As tanks fill and get shut off, the demand on the pumps (and the system head curve) will change. The solution is to have a larger pump that runs when all tanks are on line and some smaller pumps that run when only a few tanks are left to fill. Having more pumps will slightly increase the cost but will give you much better flexibility and reliability. It will be a small fraction of the piping and tank cost.

    These are just suggestions. There are a lot of ways to design a system like this.

  • Hi Tom

    Yes i have pumps after the tanks for irrigation purpose.

    Actually  i tried your suggestion regarding using one larger pump and smaller pump and it doesn't work. if you have more suggestions or if you kindly put your suggestion in the model and send it back to me this will be great help from you, beacuse it looks to me that FCV is the ideal solution till now.

    Thanks a lot for your time and help

    Eng. Sayed Elhagar

Reply
  • Hi Tom

    Yes i have pumps after the tanks for irrigation purpose.

    Actually  i tried your suggestion regarding using one larger pump and smaller pump and it doesn't work. if you have more suggestions or if you kindly put your suggestion in the model and send it back to me this will be great help from you, beacuse it looks to me that FCV is the ideal solution till now.

    Thanks a lot for your time and help

    Eng. Sayed Elhagar

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