This discussion has been locked.
You can no longer post new replies to this discussion. If you have a question you can start a new discussion

calibration hammer model

anyone have an experience in calibration Hammer model?

Thx 

  • Hello Fadel,

     

    Could you please provide us more information on what kind of transient analysis or calibration do you want to perform using Hammer?

    Here is some useful information for you to get started with Hammer, if you haven’t gone through it already. 

    http://communities.bentley.com/products/hydraulics___hydrology/w/hydraulics_and_hydrology__wiki/10348.learning-resource-guide-for-new-user-of-bentley-hammer-v8i 

    http://communities.bentley.com/products/hydraulics___hydrology/w/hydraulics_and_hydrology__wiki/3031.hammer-general-faqs

    Regards,

    Sushma Choure

    Bentley Technical Suppport

  • Hello Fadel,

    There is a model calibration tool available in WaterGEMS, which uses the same file types that HAMMER uses. This tool is called Darwin Calibrator. You can find more information on Darwin Calibrator here: communities.bentley.com/.../5910.using-darwin-calibrator

    Darwin Calibrator is not included in HAMMER because it is assumed that you have a working, calibrated model before you run the transient analysis. The following link has information on other steps you can take to prepared you model to run in HAMMER: communities.bentley.com/.../23535.preparing-a-model-for-analysis-in-bentley-hammer

    Regards,
    Scott
  • Scott's advice is correct if you are trying to calibrate the underlying network model which you need before you get into the transient analysis. We also have a great deal of material on such calibration in our book "Analysis of Water Distribution Systems".

    If you are trying to calibrate the transient aspects of a HAMMER run, you need data collected at a very fine time resolution. Data from an ordinary SCADA system or data logger may not be sufficient. There are special loggers than record pressures at a fraction of a second time interval that you would need.

    Once you get this data, if the model doesn't match the field data, you adjust model input to match the field data. One of the first things that users adjust is wave speed since the actual wave speed is often different from the theoretical speed.
  • Dear Dr. Tom,

    Thank you for your response, one of my student trying to model a simple

    system, the system is for an experiment apparatus to determine the

    characteristics of waterhammer and it is consist of the following:

    1.Constant head tank,

    2.test pipe connected to outlet at the base of the constant head tank,

    the pipe is 3m length, 22 mm diameter, 0.9mm thickness, Young's modulus

    215.3 GN/m^2, cross-section 0.3204x10^-3. The test pipe is in two

    sections, with compression type unions and terminates with fast acting

    valve with high closure rate.

    the density of water used 1000kg/m^3 and Bulk modulus 2.05 GN/m^2,

    attached is a hammer file for the model.

    the experment results shows:

    average flow velocity is 1.107 m/s, the calculate sound velocity 1290

    m/s, the pressure is 13.5 bar, the time duration 6.875 mSecs

    The problem is the model results does not match the experment result.

    Could you evaluate the model.

    Kind regards,

    Fadel Dakhil

    كتب Tom Walski في 2016-11-28 09:18:

    > #outlook a {{padding:0;}} body{{width:100% !important;

    > -webkit-text-size-adjust:100%; -ms-text-size-adjust:100%; margin:0;

    > padding:0; background: #ffffff;}} .ExternalClass {{width:100%;}}

    > .ExternalClass, .ExternalClass p, .ExternalClass span, .ExternalClass

    > font, .ExternalClass td, .ExternalClass div {{line-height: 100%;}}

    > #backgroundTable {{margin:0; padding:0; width:100% !important;

    > line-height: 100% !important;}} img {{outline:none;

    > text-decoration:none; -ms-interpolation-mode: bicubic; max-width:

    > 100%;}} p {{margin: 1em 0;}} a {{border:none;color: #0087c3

    > !important; text-decoration: none;}} a:active {{ color: #0087c3

    > !important; }} a:visited {{ color: #0087c3 !important; }} table td

    > {{border-collapse: collapse;}} table {{ border-collapse:collapse;

    > mso-table-lspace:0pt; mso-table-rspace:0pt; }}

    >

    > Message from Bentley Communities

    >

    > [AUTOMATED MESSAGE; IF THERE IS A LINK BELOW, PLEASE FOLLOW THAT IF

    > YOU WISH TO RESPOND TO THIS COMMUNITIES MESSAGE.]

    > -------------------------

    >

    > RE: calibration hammer model [1]

    >

    > Tom Walski [2]

    >

    > Scott's advice is correct if you are trying to calibrate the

    > underlying network model which you need before you get into the

    > transient analysis. We also have a great deal of material on such

    > calibration in our book "Analysis of Water Distribution Systems".

    >

    > If you are trying to calibrate the transient aspects of a HAMMER run,

    > you need data collected at a very fine time resolution. Data from an

    > ordinary SCADA system or data logger may not be sufficient. There are

    > special loggers than record pressures at a fraction of a second time

    > interval that you would need.

    >

    > Once you get this data, if the model doesn't match the field data, you

    > adjust model input to match the field data. One of the first things

    > that users adjust is wave speed since the actual wave speed is often

    > different from the theoretical speed.

    >

    > -------------------------

    >

    > Did this answer your question?

    >

    > Verify it as the answer [3] or Reject it as the answer [4]

    >

    > View online [1]

    >

    > You received this notification because you subscribed to the forum.

    > To unsubscribe from only this thread, go here [5].

    >

    > Flag [6] this post as spam/abuse.

    >

    >

    >

    > Links:

    > ------

    > [1]

    > communities.bentley.com/.../393364

    > [2]

    > communities.bentley.com/.../e6d13ed9_2d00_5d63_2d00_4cf6_2d00_9780_2d00_44e709cf4cbb

    > [3]

    > communities.bentley.com/.../verifyanswer

    > [4]

    > communities.bentley.com/.../rejectanswer

    > [5]

    > communities.bentley.com/.../mute

    > [6]

    > communities.bentley.com/.../393364;AbuseContentTypeId=f586769b-0822-468a-b7f3-a94d480ed9b0&AbuseFlag=true

  • It's pretty much impossible to measure transient pressure on a 3 m long pipe.

    The pressure wave would have travelled 180 times back and forth in a second.

    Unless you have some amazing pressure and flow meters, it's doubtful that your calibration measurements are very accurate.