This discussion has been locked.
You can no longer post new replies to this discussion. If you have a question you can start a new discussion

Pressure increasing in pipes due to water hammer

Hello,

I want to modelize a water hammer in a facility : I modelize it with 2 hydropneumatic tank linked with pipes. I have 4 TCV valves with a transient operation (the closure time is about 0,2s) to create the watter hammer. The velocity is around 2 m/s in the pipe and the difference of pressure between the 2 tank is around 1 bar. When the watter hammer is created, the pressure increase to 18 bars. 

I have several questions :

The problem is that it's not equivalent to the reality. The increasing of the pressure is around 5 bars. Is it an establishment of the pattern problem ? 

I have also a problem with the time of closure of the valve, because when I increase it, it doesn't affect the pressure, whereas it should be.

In the software bentley hammer, is it the relative or absolute pressure in the time history ?

Thank you in advance.

Regards

  • Hello,

    For the first two questions, this may be related to the setup of the model. For instance, a very fast or instantaneous valve closure is more likely to cause a large spike in pressure. If you believe that the hydropneumatic tanks in the model should better mitigate the pressure increase occurring because of the valve closure, you may want to review your hydropneumatic tank settings and user notifications. For instance, if you are getting a user notification implying that the tank is empty, you may need to adjust the tank data.

    Closing the valves more slowly may cause a smaller spike in pressure. Depending on the setup of the hydropneumatic tanks, you may see little in the way of transient behavior in the model results.

    Here is a link to a TechNote on hydropneumatic tanks and how they are used in HAMMER: communities.bentley.com/.../modeling-reference-_2d00_-hydropneumatic-tanks.aspx

    For the pressure reporting, HAMMER uses gauge pressure.

    Please let us know if you have any further questions. If there are model-specific questions, it may be best to see a copy of the model. There are two options for sharing your model files on BE Communities. If you would like the files to be visible to other members, compress the files into a zip file and upload them as an attachment using the ‘Advanced Reply editor’ before posting. If your data is confidential, you can follow the instructions in the link below to send it to us via Bentley Sharefile. Files uploaded to Sharefile can only be viewed by Bentley.

    communities.bentley.com/.../bentleysecurefilesupload.aspx

    If you upload the model to Sharefile, please post here letting us know, so that we know that it is available.

    Regards,

    Scott Kampa

    Bentley Technical Support

  • In addition to what Scott said, I would also check for vapor and/or air pockets. If this occurs and air is released too quickly (or a large vapor pocket collapses) it can lead to a severe "upsurge". Create a profile and animate it in the transient results viewer, paying close attention to what happens and how the system reacts.

    Regarding not seeing a response as you change the closure delay; this could be realistic, but I would also check to make sure that you have the headloss coefficient (or discharge coefficient) entered in the valve properties. For the reason why, see the below support solution:

    communities.bentley.com/.../12683.gradual-closure-not-occurring-when-using-valve-operating-rule-solution-500000058523.aspx

    This could also explain why a valve closure may see a more severe transient response than expected.

    As Scott said though, seeing the model will help us provide the most accurate answer.


    Regards,

    Jesse Dringoli
    Technical Support Manager, OpenFlows
    Bentley Communities Site Administrator
    Bentley Systems, Inc.

  • Thank you for your answer. I upload the model named "Pressure in pipe" on wednesday in the afternoon.

    Even with the discharge coefficient, the spike in pressure is still really more important than in the experimental model.

    Is HAMMER calculation for the pressure close to the Joukowski formula ?

    Regards,

    Jerome

  • Hello Jerome,

    In looking at the model, there appears to be vapor forming after the valve closure. When these collapse and impact the closed valves, this is the likely cause of the pressure spikes. The hydropneumatic tank H-2 should be able to supply some protection, but you may need to look at the properties for the tank to make sure they are correct.

    Regarding the general layout, the fast closer (and reopening) of the valves might be part of the issue. In your first post, you say that you change the closure time and see no pressure spikes. To what are you changing the operating rule?

    HAMMER use Method of Characteristics to solve a system. Depending on the system, you may see results that are close to an approximation found using the Joukowski formula. However, that may not always be the case.

    Regards,

    Scott

  • Hello,

    Thank you for the attention you pay.

    I am changing the operating rule from 0.2s (closure and reopening time) to 0.3s for example. But it doesn't affect the spike of pressure.

    I have an experimental model, with the same parameters for the pipes, valves, and hydropneumatic tank, so I expect to have similar results in the HAMMER software and in the experiment: But it is not, because in the experimental situation, the spike in pressure in the pipe is around 5 bars, and with HAMMER it is around 17 bars.

    Regards,

    Jerome