Request ”Save Settings on Exit” - [Archived] MicroStation V8i Forum - MicroStation - Bentley Communities

Request ”Save Settings on Exit”

Hi everyone.

I have occasionally thought since before.
It is to turn off "Save Settings on Exit" in an initial setting.
As a result, First Time User forgets ”Save Setting”.
First Time User returns the setting and is always embarrassed.
I do not think it is too good.

What does you think?
I want you to turn this on and to release it.

24 Replies

  • I am with you (I think). I don't like users to have this setting on for a couple of reasons.

    -Batch plotting. Drawings get left with levels & view settings on/off that shouldn't be.

    -Indecipherable thumbnails, the thumb nail gets (re)created when the user exits to "some place" in the drawing that is of no help viewing drawings in the MicroStation Manager dialog.

    Yea, I don't like it. Most users don't realize the ramifications of it.

    Scott

    Kind Regards,

    Scott

    »  - -  «

  • In reply to Scott Harmon:

    My users have this specifically ticked  to ensure that they enter the drawing and menus as they left it.

    I would be nice to have the interface settings (per user) to be seperate from the drawing settings (per file)

  • In reply to RobertJones:

    Interface is dictated by UPF - right? Drawing by save settings?

  • In reply to RobertJones:

    "Save Settings (Ctrl+F)" actually is a "save file setting" - it saves e.g. view settings - what, where and how - , also e.g. text, scale, units, grid, locks. So the user only wants to do that just when those settings need to be changed. In many cases users want to come back to a particular view constellation and [EDIT:] NOT as they left the file the last time , but rather in a state that is only defined 'on purpose' using "Save Settings" [end of EDIT]

    The interface (per user) is filed in the user profile - according to the user selected in the "File Open" dialog (when you start microstation) - you can have several different ones for particular purposes - all interface changes - like menues - are filed immediately and are not influenced by save settings.

    HTH, Gerd

    Wähle deine Funktion - Prüfe die Einstellungen - Folge den Anweisungen in der Statusleiste / für Hilfe F1 in den Funktionseinstellungen  
    Choose your tool - Set the Settings - Follow the prompts / for Help press F1 in Toolssettings


  • In reply to Gerd Eisenacher:

    Scott,

    unless I missunderstood, You do not agree with Ryuichi. As far as I read, he wants to get this setting as "on by default" !?

    I'm with you that having this setting on is a pain. You always end up with a drawing that is not in the place you left it, whenever another user just opens and zooms for information. Having this setting off is intial to using batch plotting (as you stated) and some other stuff that needs to have a 'fixed' entry point. In worst case the user is leaving a drawing in a copy of a model you worked on, which is than opened, and I bet you do not realize that you now work on the copy.

    As stated before, save settings is for file content (drawing units, raster - ey funny if they 're changed) not for the UI beside the fact that the views are automatically resized to the content of the views as they are in the file.

    my 5ct

    Michael


  • In reply to Michael Stark:

    For drawing sheets it would be nice to leave this off, but for model files its nicer to enter the model as you left it especially if you are boucing between many sub models.

  • In reply to Gerd Eisenacher:

    Hi everyone

    think you for reply.

    I do post here and have understood.

    "Save Settings on Exit" can be set by the interface.

    I did not know this setting.

    Thank you for you who taught.

    I am managing CAD setting of my company.

    I  will manage Save Setting on Exit by the interface tomorrow.

    However, there is another one problem of presenting it here.

    This setting is not made puzzled of the first user.

    Most users do not understand the cause and long time passes.

    I want to discuss turning off the first setting.

    regards.

  • In reply to Ryuichi Ishikawa:

    Hi,

    I think that the bottom line is that each way has an advantage and a disadvantage.  Either way could cause problems with a "first time user".  That's why it is a preference and it's just something that needs to be checked and set the way you want to operate your copy of Mstn.  

    I absolutely do not want this setting on in my office.  When it comes to plotting, it you change something and leave the drawing (not even thinking about anything), if the settings are automatically saved then you've messed up the next time that file plots.  But of course the flip is that if you want to save settings & you forget, then you have to redo what you wanted to do.

    I think that which ever default is chosen, we all will have to go back and verify if it is the way we want it for ourselves.

    --Robert

  • In reply to RobertArnold:

    Thank you for the input.  Because of the historical nature of the way the product works we do not plan to make this change.  We will continue to montior this type of request and reconsider this decision in the future.

    Best,
       ~John Frampton
       Product Manager MicroStation, PowerDraft, View
       Bentley 


    This is a test

  • In reply to Scott Harmon:

    Scott Harmon

    Indecipherable thumbnails, the thumb nail gets (re)created when the user exits to "some place" in the drawing that is of no help viewing drawings in the MicroStation Manager dialog.

     

    Hi Scott, are you aware of MS_THUMBNAIL to control what is used for the thumbnail?

    More here:  http://communities.bentley.com/communities/other_communities/askinga/w/askinga/all-about-thumbnail-generation.aspx

    Best Regards,

    ~Inga

    Pick the tool.  Adjust the settings. Follow the prompts.


  • In reply to Inga Morozoff:

    In some firms I've actually added some vb to the autorun vb to make sure this option if off. I'm not a fan as a rule. I then make sure users know the ramifications of using save settings and make them use it on a function key or similar if they do want it.


  • In reply to RobertArnold:

    RobertArnold

    I absolutely do not want this setting on in my office.  When it comes to plotting, it you change something and leave the drawing (not even thinking about anything), if the settings are automatically saved then you've messed up the next time that file plots.  But of course the flip is that if you want to save settings & you forget, then you have to redo what you wanted to do.I

    We have this setting set all the time, so that we know exactly how the drawing will be when we open it. Never had a problem with have this set to on.

    I'm not getting the plotting example above, Surely when plotting a drawing (with title block, sheet layout, etc) it is WYSIWYG. If you change something wouldn't that be on a revision?

  • In reply to stuartw:

    There are pros and cons either way this is set, its simply automating the process for you, for every file. Choose your poison. I know for sheets files I would like it off, but for model files to be on. I live with it on and use saved views to control sheet display. Perhaps it's I'm being less efficient...?

    What you and all your co-workers need to know is that it IS or IS NOT set and work accordingly.

    A more productive answer might be listing exactly what settings get saved:

    Level display,

    Viewport positions/size/display style,

    Preferences,

    What else....

  • In reply to RobertJones:

    Level display and viewport positions are those things that I don't like to be changed by another user who is 'visiting' my drawing. And especially level on/off is deadly for plotting, even when you suppose that you only plot from sheets (which is still not true for all of our customers - for whatever reason). And I even don't want to create an additional saved view to assure my preview is where I want it.

    Roberts advice is the best so far. Let's figure out what is really saved, and each one (or each admin) can decide if he wants to become temporary changes of those settings as permanent ones, each time someone leaves the drawing.

    Preferences is a little bit to much general. There is nothing saved that is a dialog setting with respect to anything that might be changed by settings/design file (so active angle is changed from different dialogs i.e. placing cells). All this stuff like units, raster, angle-readout etc. is influenced by 'save setting'.

    So anything else to rememeber ?


  • In reply to Michael Stark:

    I might be daft but I cant see much in the help files explaining what "DGN settings" exactly are...

    A quick search did find this:

    communities.bentley.com/.../save-settings-and-user-preferences.aspx

  • In reply to RobertJones:

    Robert,

    in the MicroStation menu, open settings/design file. All those are the settings, handled by 'save settings'

    I'm not sure what else might be in there, this should be subject of clearification (in best case from someone internal)

    edit. the blog is mixing up immediately changes like adding linestyles or other library/style changes with settings saved by the 'save settings' option. None of those things reachable via workspace/preferences or workspace/configuration, is ever inside those settings.


  • In reply to Michael Stark:

    For the most part, "DGN settings" are those things that are stored in the DGN header, also known as the Terminal Control Block (i.e. TCB), which is "documented" in the file tcb.h that is delivered with the MicroStation SDK. If you are familiar with that file, you are most likely aware of the many different settings there are. Those can be set through a number of ways (e.g. each of the items under the Settings menu, using the 'active...' family of commands in Utilities > Key-in, the Tool Settings dialog, etc.)


    This is a test

  • In reply to stuartw:

    stuartw

    ...I'm not getting the plotting example above, Surely when plotting a drawing (with title block, sheet layout, etc) it is WYSIWYG. If you change something wouldn't that be on a revision?


    Hi Stuart,

    If you are the only one (or two) doing CAD on a project, then you wouldn't recognize the issues with Save Settings and plotting. Here's an example of what I would experience on a project:
    -As we approach the last week on a mid to large sized project we'll have anywhere from 3 to 10 people working on the same project and possible 3 to 5 people working on the same drawings (at different times). "Joe" is getting into all the 4 floors of base files changing all corridor doors from double swinging to double egress. Joe finds it easiest to turn off the bulkhead lines on A-Flor-Ovhd. He remembers to turn them back on except for the 2nd floor, where he had to go over to help someone else out, came back to his computer and jumped into the next floor plan (without remembering to turn on all the levels he had on when he opened the drawing. (This could have as easily been a sheet file in the same scenario.)
    -A project manager gets into a drawing and wants to look at something so he is going to turn some levels off. Unbeknownst to him, he chooses the "off by element" command and he turns off elements off that he doesn't realize because there were some things left selected when he choose the command.
    What do you do when you need to go to someone else's computer and close them out of a drawing? Maybe they're in a meeting and you need to get something done in that drawing that's going to take a while, and you can't be working in their seat cause they'll need it when they get back. Do you turn all the levels back on/off that were off/onb when the drawing was initially opened? Probably not. How could you know?

    If all you want Save Settings for is to restore the view you were last working in, I have a good (IMHO) solution for you. I'll put it in another post here to help keep this one shorter.

    Scott

    Kind Regards,

    Scott

    »  - -  «

  • If all you want Save Settings for is to restore the view you were last working in, Could you entertain this for a solution?

    I have a button for this but you could run the same commands automatically when  you open and close a drawing.

    I have a button for saving my last working view and one for restoring my last view. If I leave a drawing in the middle of a task I'll hit the "save last" button. Then  when I return to the drawing I'll hit the "restore last"  button.

    Wait, wait, wait. Don't quit reading yet.

    These buttons work for any user that uses them. You can put them out in your corporate interface. The "save" button actually creates a saved view named relative to the user's name and likewise it restores it to the same. For me it saves a view  called "Last-Harmon_S" because I'm telling it to save the view "Last-$(_USTN_USERNAME)". You could use any variable that is convenient for you. It looks like this:

    The save view key-in is:
    $ sv=Last-$(_USTN_USERNAME),$(_USTN_USERNAME) was working here last;dx=0

    The restore view key-in is:
    $ vi=Last-$(_USTN_USERNAME);dx=0

    To automate this you could run the save upon close, and run the restore upon entering. Remember, it will depend on who (the user selected in MicroStation Manager) is opening the drawing. Or you could use a system variable that defines your user and you wouldn't have to use the MM settings.

    Automatically (no user requirements), Circumvent all "save settings" thumbnails by using a standard saved view. A previous post discussed how save settings sets the thumbnail used for the drawing. We have standardized on a logical name for our borders (you could use the file name, but we have different drawings for different sizes and a one button solution (key-in) wouldn't be possible. Our border is a reference, and its logical name is "TB" and this is one benefit of a standard name. If you key in SV=preview MicroStation will create a saved view called "preview" and by default, MicroStation will used the saved view called "preview" for the drawing's thumbnail, if it exists.

    So if you want a thumbnail of the whole drawing you will want to fit the border then save the view. If you really want to be nice you would want to restore the previous user's view as it was before this was run.

    Save Thumbnail:
    REFERENCE FIT TB;SELVIEW 1;SV=preview,View to use for thumbnail;SELVIEW 1;VIEW PREVIOUS

    Kind Regards,

    Scott

    Kind Regards,

    Scott

    »  - -  «

  • In reply to Scott Harmon:

    One word, starts with G and ends in ENIUS.

    this is the kind of workflow that you just don't find in the help files.

  • In reply to Scott Harmon:

    Very nice Scott. Thanks for sharing.


  • In reply to Scott Harmon:

    Scott,

    Thank you for this. I will check this out. We don't normally work with saved views but if these are automated then this should work.

  • In reply to Bear:

    That's a gem Scot, really.

    Does someone happen to know of a way to put the date into the description too?

    Ivo Blaauw
    = = = = = = = = = = = = =
    Look what the CAD dragged in...

  • In reply to Ivo Blaauw:

    I had tried to do this with plotting by hooking the plot dialog and creating "plot_($username)" saved view; $username is the Windows login user name. It worked when an autostart macro basic macro was used but I never found a way to hook using vba. I used this as a way for different users to restore their (or) other's last plot settings.

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