Windows 7 timescale

Thanks Jon, I always appreciate your point of view.

In this case, all the vehicles had defects (bugs) in the tires and wouldn't run at all. We had to wait for 52 builds before we had one with tires that would roll. Of those 52 builds, we had to load 19 different builds on 450 different machines each time. Lots of time put in for stable builds, so I am going with unusable and unstable. Now on to V8i which is very stable and very usable.

Semantics and Flames

Steve:

I guess usability and stability are two different things?

Well, they are different things. Two distinct words; two distinct meanings.

I have three vehicles:

1. An F1 racing car
2. A saloon car
3. A 4x4 pickup

---

1. The racing car is unstable, and unusable except for my 22 year old son whose reflexes can cope

2. The saloon car is stable, and usable by all those in the family who can drive. But we don't use it for racing, and we can't use it for transporting heavy loads

3. The pickup is extremely stable but slow. Granny loves it but my son refuses to drive it, believing he will fall asleep through boredom

Depending on your point of view, a product may be usable and stable, or unusable and unstable, or some combination of those possibilities.

Regards, Jon Summers
LA Solutions

My bad Phil. Silly me I thought being able to use a product for production was a kin to it being stable. I guess to you, usability and stability are 2 different things?

Hi paulov,

if you survived the movement from XP to Vista, I am pretty sure the upgrade to Windows 7 will be much easier and based on my experience with XP / Vista / W7 I am quite optimistic regarding to Windows 7 acceptance. From my point of view MicroStation V8 2004 Edition > XM > V8i way is similar to XP > Vista > W7 development. Both Vista and XM brought new ideas and technologies and it took some time to clean up and optimize the code. Because of number of rapid changes and news (and bugs ;-) the acceptance was not always positive in both cases, but as SteveMayer wrote both Vista and XM are stable products now. V8i is perfect and W7 seems to be the same even before its release :-)

I think Linux is not an option for 3D graphics and CAD users right now, at least because of quality of graphics drivers and a bit obsolete X Windows system. The situation have improved step by step, but it is still far from what is offered for Windows and it will take years until the support for 3D will be on the same level. Of course it doesn't mean you cannot use Linux as OS for CAD software, but the situation is that only a few of professional 3D CAD and GIS suppliers support Linux and probably all from them have Windows as the main platform, which I am sure is based on their rational decision.

Regards,

Jan

The "number of builds" has little correlation to any sort of "stability quotient".

Okay so stinker may have been a little harsh but there were 53 builds until we got a stable version... Vista offered a lot of new features and there are loads of people that have trouble with it. Potāto, potăto

 

SteveMeyer:

maybe because they knew XM was a stinker,

Hmmm... MicroStation V8 XM Edition was (and is) a great version. New things galore, yup, some things different, yup, "a stinker"... NOPE.

paulov,

We have been testing V8i with Windows 7 and had very nice results. Architect, Geopak, Rebar, Bridge, Map, and plain old MicroStation run great. For many people, Vista was a poor OS. We even paid a bunch of money to Microsoft not to move from XP. We are finding that Windows 7 is stable and the new interface is nice for the users.

I liken Vista a lot to MicroStation XM. It came out quickly with a lot of bugs. 53+ builds later we have a stable product. I think in the background, Bentley put a huge amount of time onto V8i, maybe because they knew XM was a stinker, and it is shows. Likewise, Vista was problematic and it seems the Microsoft was working in the background on 7. V8i is very stable and when we make the jump, there is little concern we will find many bugs. We appreciate the commitment that Bentley has made to the Windows platform. It allows them to write for 90%+ of computers in the world and we can be confident that we can get support for problems when they come up. Writing code in VBA is easy and we don't have to pay for training classes for different Operating Systems. Thanks

This comes up from time to time (albeit more and more rare). We have been there, done that with various OS support -- we support Windows now.

Hi,

 Well I would like to comment that here in the office we had VERY disgusting experience with the conversion to Vista.

 We moved to vista  from XP SP2, more than a year later from its release and I've to say that it was terribly bad. 

 We lost a lot of time configuring it not go increase the productivity.

 Now, vista, has become more or less, stable  and they release a new version?.... To me, its the same history again.

Suport for  W7 will be  there for sure, as they will impose this OS asthe did with vista.

But honestly,  I would ask Bentlye to consider again altnernative platforms runing under Linux that from the point of view of the performance and stability.  Well difficult considering the interset  in the MVBA adopted by bentely.. but would be an interesting alternative.

 Thanks.

You are correct in that there are a number of factors and considerations that need to be taken into account, including "market demand" and other "variables" that cannot be quantified. You are also correct in that this is on our "roadmap", as we know it will be important. As we have done when new Windows releases have become commercially available, we will strive to meet the requests of users who have put the new OS in place in their computing environments. That is really all we can say about it at this time.

Ok what is your normal projected time or indicitive timescale from past experience with OS release's ie Vista or XP? I relise this is not in stone and there is lots to consider but what would the turnaround for something like this be once its officially released. Any approx guidance greatly appreciated. I would imagine you would have something like this on your roadmap?

 

Alex

Ok thanks for letting me know, I guess you will offiicially support this once windows 7 is firmly adopted and been out in the mainstream for sometime.

 Alex

Some very basic "testing" is taking place, but we are not planning to "officially" certify new product releases until after the commercial release of Windows 7.

Yes back to the original Post Question, when is Bentley likely to start testing or providing support for Windows 7? Microstation is our core application in the business and having the eventual support for this in Windows 7 will strengthen our future OS upgrade plan.

 Alex

I was using Microstation V8i on windows 7 and all of the sudden my screen went blue and an error message telling me to contact the software vendor appeared. Restarted the machine but MicroStation never started again. The introductory image of Bentley's V8i appears, but that's it... Unistalled and reinstalled, but nothing. Reinstalled the prerequistes and MS again, and nothing. Restored the System to a state previous to the crash, and reinstalled... still the same.

i'm using windows 7 RC build 7100 [x32 bit] and the word processor issue has been resolved in my case.  but -  i do notice something else that i have yet to read mention of.  i have the level display docked on the left hand side of my screen and when i click on a level, it *flickers* 5-6 times and then stays off/on.  i am unable to double click a level to activate it because of this.  the same thing happens on the reference dialog.  Project explorer you have to select the folder/file then double click [before you could just double click without pre-selecting].  so - there seems to be some lag here.  same system with vista - no problems.

anyway - i just though i would weigh in and see if any other users are experiencing this.

TIA

silvery:

I must agree with kevin. the only problem (but for me principal, because some types of  text are uneditable with dialog box) in windows 7 is text editor. Now i testing windows 7 RC (x64 build 7100) and this problem persist. It would be good if somebody from bentley take a look to this and resolve problem for next version of microstation. it seems as trivial problem i guess.

I just installed: DHTML Editing Control And it fixed the problem. I am running Windows 7 RC x64 and tried the x86 package that I linked above and it worked just fine. Text editor is working great-

I must agree with kevin. the only problem (but for me principal, because some types of  text are uneditable with dialog box) in windows 7 is text editor. Now i testing windows 7 RC (x64 build 7100) and this problem persist. It would be good if somebody from bentley take a look to this and resolve problem for next version of microstation. it seems as trivial problem i guess.

Jon,

The thread was already created, see the link. I posed the reference here as this may be of similar importance as the released version of Windows 7 which will most certainly be shipped with IE 8; although it is currently impossable to test both on the same machine since the current Beta of Win 7 is incompatable.

Roy

Roy:

I know this doesn't relate to Windows 7, has anyone tested V8i w/ IE8?

Neither does it relate to this thread. So, why not start a new thread?

Regards, Jon Summers
LA Solutions

I know this doesn't relate to Windows 7, has anyone tested V8i w/ IE8? See this thread: http://communities.bentley.com/administrators/general/f/289/t/20036.aspx

Roy

Thanks for this useful and elucidating narrative about Windows 7 - I haven't installed it myself but having heard your comments I am going get it up and running on my home workstation to start trials.

Rob

I am currently running Windows 7 x64, build 7068. I was running Vista x64 without any problems in Microstation V8i. I have been able to run Microstation V8i in Windows 7 x64 without any major problems. Pre-Requisites installed as expected. Installation of V8i went as expected. There are some interesting graphical quirks, nothing that hinders production though. The only problem I have found so far is that the word processor fails to load. I have not spent much time trying to figure out why, I am currently using the Dialog Box text editor instead.

That is really the only problem I have run into so far. So that is very promising. I liked Vista x64, but do not plan to go back as the user interface in 7 is much more responsive and intuitive. It takes some getting used to, but once you do, it is really hard to go back. I would recommend waiting out for Windows 7, as I believe it will be a more stable and enjoyable experience. I know of a few issues that never seemed to have gotten resolved in Vista x64, such as network file transfer speeds, that Windows 7 doesn't seem to have a problem with.

As far as the display system goes, and running multiple monitors, Windows 7 is much more multiple monitor friendly, as it has built in features that make managing your windows much easier. Vista is a step up from XP, but Windows 7 is a whole new ball game in that regard. I think you guys will be very pleased with Windows 7, as even in the Beta version I am more than satisfied.

Well, I hope that helps give you more perspective. If you have any more specific questions, let me know and I'll be glad to test something out for you-

I think it will be a bit earlier than mid 2010. A Windows 7 public RC is due out in May. Maybe the final release in the 3rd quarter of 2009?

Do not quote me on this but if it works on Vista, it should work on Windows 7 either without modification or with minor changes.

I appreciate this is somewhat premature given that Windows 7 has not been released. I understand that mid 2010 is a likely timescale though.

We have resisted the urge to upgrade to Vista for various reasons, including outside advice, but as I understand Windows 7 resolves many of the issues that have prevented much of the world for getting Vista.

I understand that there are some benefits for v8i users with Vista, particularly in respect of the display system and multiple monitors. I assume these will still be present  in Windows 7.

What are Bentley's plans for compatibility and role out?

Robert Klaschka