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### Water Line Profile - Pipe Deflection

I am a Civil Engineer and work with numerous applications in which pipe deflection plays a key role in my design process. For example, creating plans and profile for large (ex. 36" Ductile Iron Pipe) water lines in congested areas can prove to be challenging considering the larger the pipe the less deflection at the joints. In order to draw these layouts on the plans, I have to convert the deflection of the bell into a radius on paper to show where the pipeline needs to be deflected by the joints only and where the pipeline may need a fittings and restrained joints. The equation that I use to convert this deflection to a radius is as follows: Radius = PipeLength/(2*tan(((MaxDeflection*pi)/180)/2)) where "MaxDeflection is in Degrees and "Pipelength" is the length of one joint of pipe in Feet. Is there a way in Geopak or Microstation, based on the existing ground profile, to automatically draw the pipeline with the defined radius instead of manually drawing curves tangent to each other? I have attached a DGN file showing a simple example of the design process.
Profile Example.dgn

### 7 Replies (Most Recent Reply)

• Are you actually drawing the curved section of pipe in profile view? Have you found a package that has that ability?
• I am having to draw the curved sections in the profile view. Very time consuming. I am looking for an easier/quicker way to do that. Possibly using some software that will minimize my time.
• In reply to Festus963:

Matthew - When you create the water line, set the profile interval to a value which matches the standard pipe length.  Then when you create the profile you will only have vertices at joints.  Then you can edit the vertices and in conjunction with Accudraw build in the max deflection angle at each joint.

I'm afraid that is about as good an answer as I can offer in GEOPAK Water/Sewer.

Robert Garrett
Senior Product Engineer
Bentley Systems Inc.

• In reply to Robert Garrett:

I'm no expert on Power Civil or the water tools but I am wondering if this could be done by creating a COGO profile for the pipes. Once a profile is created it could be used to build a surface model. The pipes would then use that surface as a reference surface and would follow the desired vertical curves. The COGO profile could be used to annotate the curves.

Could this concept work with some tweaks?

Neil Wilson (aka Neilw)

Power Civil v8i 08.11.07.245

AutoCAD Civil 3D 2013

• In reply to neilw:

Neil,

Good thought!

Only Mathew can say if it will work for his scenario, but its certainly a "left field" idea thats plausible.

Your idea is this:

Create a Horizontal alignmnet along the proposed pipe path.

Create an existing surface profile along the path. Then design a profile along the path that approximately replicates the desired vertical geometry of the proposed pipe profile. (this is the tricky step of course...)

Then use the Horizontal and proposed vertical alignment to create a Site Modeler surface. Using Comp section with a left and right offset and zero slope would do this pretty quickly. There are other methods of creating the surface (as you are aware).

Then use this surface as the pipe reference surface in the Water/Sewer tools.

If the pipe length is used as the elevation interval when creating the pipe profile in Water/Sewer, then the elevations gained would be at the ends and the pipe deflection angles at each joint are immediately available through the Water>Edit Profile tool.

Very good idea!

• In reply to MichaelGilham:

The road network tool could get a rough profile started. If the profile were dropped by the desired pipe depth it could be used to annotate the pipe profile as well since we would want vertical curve data. The pipe offset would be zero from the reference surface in this scenario. This is what I was thinking anyway.

Good idea about setting the sample interval to the length of a piece of pipe Michael. We can get deflections angles and vertical curve data where needed.

Neil Wilson (aka Neilw)

Power Civil v8i 08.11.07.245

AutoCAD Civil 3D 2013

• Wow! Good thinking, I think??? You all have lost me. I'm going to have to do my homework on this with all of your provided advice. I know how to use Geopak to an extent. Basically all I do is use the Road Tool to get my profile then manually draw in the proposed pipe. I will look into Water/Sewer Tool and use your recommendations. I'll be sure to post what I find out. I appreciate all of your help! Any suggestions for reference material on the Water/Sewer Tool?