Edit default attributes and primary in ribbon

RE: Edit default attributes and primary in ribbon

David Trejo-Rodriguez — Fri, 05 Jan 2018 17:04:07 GMT

[quote user="Robert Högberg"]I can't pin it, don't know what I'm doing wrong, but we need the shortcuts (or what we should call it) for them anyway, so that won't be a solution anyway. [/quote]

To pin the Main group do the following:

1. swtich to the task navigation workflow

2. right click on any element within the Main group

3. a menu should pop up go to pin/unpin group --> pin to all workflows

[quote user="Robert Högberg"]do you mean put a / before it? It seems I can't do that because it's not a standard key on my keyboard, (it's shift + 7). English keyboards has it as a standard key, right?[/quote]

Yes I used the "/" character just as a place holder, I just picked a key that most likely would not be used.

RE: Edit default attributes and primary in ribbon

Robert Högberg — Fri, 05 Jan 2018 15:22:42 GMT

Ok, thanks. I'm gonna have to look closer into that another time.

RE: Edit default attributes and primary in ribbon

Jan Šlegr — Fri, 05 Jan 2018 08:50:51 GMT

[quote user="Robert Högberg"]Can I put that in the same .DGNlib-file as my ribbon?[/quote]

Not at all. They are native part of MicroStation input system and as such not related specifically to ribbon or DGNLIB. ... and it's the reason why I treat Position Mapping as "backward compatibility evil", because when PM is active, it hides the shortcuts and overrides them with another system.

I recommend to read Configuring Keyboard Shortcuts in an XML File chapter in MicroStation help, it describes how the shortcuts are stored and configured.

With regards,

Jan

RE: Edit default attributes and primary in ribbon

Jan Šlegr — Fri, 05 Jan 2018 07:57:00 GMT

[quote user="Robert Högberg"]Do you also know why we can't use numbers at first level for our shortcuts?[/quote]

Post the new question! This is very different topic from the original one and moreover it's lost inside lengthy discussion, so nobody will realize you are asking for help with different issue.

Regards,

Jan

RE: Edit default attributes and primary in ribbon

Robert Högberg — Fri, 05 Jan 2018 07:52:09 GMT

Do you also know why we can't use numbers at first level for our shortcuts? See mine and Jan's discussion further down? That would make all this a none problem, at least for me.

RE: Edit default attributes and primary in ribbon

Robert Högberg — Fri, 05 Jan 2018 07:26:00 GMT

Just a follow up qustion Jan, if I decide to use shortcuts. Can I put that in the same .DGNlib-file as my ribbon? And then load it as a GUI, or is it considered as something else?

RE: Edit default attributes and primary in ribbon

Robert Högberg — Fri, 05 Jan 2018 07:02:57 GMT

Ok, so thanks again for your help. I'm really gonna need to think about this. Maybe using shortcuts as you suggested is the best way, at least it would have been if only I would have been able to use the numbers in first level.

RE: Edit default attributes and primary in ribbon

Robert Högberg — Fri, 05 Jan 2018 06:59:27 GMT

[quote user="David Trejo-Rodriguez"]To get the shortcuts to the Main toolbar as they were available out of the box you have to use the Task Navigation workflow.[/quote]

We were actually goning to use that until we heard at the Bentley user group-conference here in Stockholm that the task navigation workflow will disappear in a soon upcoming update.

[quote user="David Trejo-Rodriguez"]However if you pin the Main group to all workflows the shortcuts will be available in any of your custom workflows. See below:[/quote]

I can't pin it, don't know what I'm doing wrong, but we need the shortcuts (or what we should call it) for them anyway, so that won't be a solution anyway.

[quote user="David Trejo-Rodriguez"]To keep the "S" key associate to the primary tools try the following:[/quote]

do you mean put a / before it? It seems I can't do that because it's not a standard key on my keyboard, (it's shift + 7). English keyboards has it as a standard key, right?

RE: Edit default attributes and primary in ribbon

David Trejo-Rodriguez — Thu, 04 Jan 2018 23:06:02 GMT

To get the shortcuts to the Main toolbar as they were available out of the box you have to use the Task Navigation workflow.

However if you pin the Main group to all workflows the shortcuts will be available in any of your custom workflows. See below:

Note that the Main group is pinned.

To keep the "S" key associate to the primary tools try the following:

If you are having issues with the Position mapped keys please make sure that the dialog with focus is in the "Home" position

RE: Edit default attributes and primary in ribbon

Jan Šlegr — Thu, 04 Jan 2018 09:17:53 GMT

[quote user="Robert Högberg"]But numbers are not configurable as shortcuts. [/quote]

Yes, they cannot be used at first level ... not quite sure why.

In fact I was not aware of this limitation for quite long time in the past, because Czech keyboard has local characaters instead of numbers (which are accessible using Shift), so "first keyboad row" can be used when swtiched from English keyboard.

[quote user="Robert Högberg"]Just find it too bad numbers can't be used as we used to use them. [/quote]

In understand this is bad issue when you use them in the past. I don't know too many users that modified Main Task, typically they use other tasks for customization, so they have not depended on numbers.

With regards,

Jan

RE: Edit default attributes and primary in ribbon

Robert Högberg — Thu, 04 Jan 2018 08:54:39 GMT

[quote user="Jan Slegr"]But it's general problem, not the difference between keyboard shortcuts and Position Mapping, isn't it?[/quote]

Yes, that's true.

[quote user="Jan Slegr"]So use another key.[/quote]

What we had before was numbers for those main tasks I talked about, (don't know if main tasks is something really common, our just something only my company uses). But numbers are not configurable as shortcuts.

Anyway, thanks for all your input Jan, I'm gonna have to think about how to make this as easy as possible for all our employees. Just find it too bad numbers can't be used as we used to use them.

RE: Edit default attributes and primary in ribbon

Jan Šlegr — Thu, 04 Jan 2018 07:38:41 GMT

[quote user="Robert Högberg"]I think my biggest problem is I really don't want it to be 3 key-ins.[/quote]

But it's general problem, not the difference between keyboard shortcuts and Position Mapping, isn't it?

[quote user="Robert Högberg"]Therefore I can't put that many tools under Q and space bar as you suggest. [/quote]

So use another key. I know the most of them are assigned by default to another functionality, but experience of many of my customers is they don't use them all, so they reorganized default assignment to free some key shortcuts.

Often used aproach is they assign the most important tools to <Space> (which is fully configurable), some from them also assigned selected key to open specified group (no more key press is required, because the tool is selected by mouse), and the other tool groups are assigned at second level, so it's about to change default schema under Q.

Maybe the first question is how many groups (or tools directly?) you want (and really need) to assign to be accessible through keyboard shortcuts.

It's just an idea that I have not tested, so not sure whether it works, but maybe visibility check can be used there also, so for the same shortcut a group with context dependet content will be displayed.

With regards,

Jan

RE: Edit default attributes and primary in ribbon

Robert Högberg — Thu, 04 Jan 2018 07:25:10 GMT

[quote user="Jan Slegr"]Old Position Mapping is also typically 2 or 3 key-ins combination, so Q + something (+ something) is pretty the same (and does not depend on a tool position)[/quote]

I think my biggest problem is I really don't want it to be 3 key-ins. Therefore I can't put that many tools under Q and space bar as you suggest.

RE: Edit default attributes and primary in ribbon

Jan Šlegr — Thu, 04 Jan 2018 07:19:12 GMT

Hi Robert,

[quote user="Robert Högberg"]problem then is i heard you can only have two quick tools, and with that, space bar as well.[/quote]

Q and <Space> are hard-coded I guess, but both are configurable, so it's easy to change what is at second level (there are many tools under Q and only one stadard option under <Space>).

Because everything is configured using standard MicroStation key-ins (see Keyboard Shortcuts dialog), I guess it's quite easy to change keyboard assignment as necessary. Old Position Mapping is also typically 2 or 3 key-ins combination, so Q + something (+ something) is pretty the same (and does not depend on a tool position). And when Q and <Space> is not enough, you can assign any other key and assign a proper key-ins to it.

[quote user="Robert Högberg"]Don't think I can fit all the commands into just 3 buttons if I want them to be easy to use, (eg. q-0 is not very easy to type). [/quote]

In my opinion there is no such limitation. And when q-0 is hard to type, change it to anything better for you.

With regards,

Jan

RE: Edit default attributes and primary in ribbon

Robert Högberg — Thu, 04 Jan 2018 06:45:01 GMT

Oh, I've used the word shortcut, I meant position mapping, thanks.

Don't know what you mean with standard ribbon access key. But I thought you meant the shortcuts first, (what's actually called shortcuts) and it seems I can you them when I turn of position mapping. problem then is i heard you can only have two quick tools, and with that, space bar as well. Don't think I can fit all the commands into just 3 buttons if I want them to be easy to use, (eg. q-0 is not very easy to type).

Or am I missing something here?

RE: Edit default attributes and primary in ribbon

Jan Šlegr — Thu, 04 Jan 2018 06:09:51 GMT

Hi Robert,

I agree with David, when Position Mapping is used, the proposed solution is probably the only one. Unfortunately it does not solve the problem with different access keys when the group is located at different position in a tab, because Position Mapping keys are always auto-generated.

My question is whether Position Mapping has to be used? Standard ribbon access keys, when Position Mapping is off, allow to define tools (icons) shortcuts independently on the tool position. A disadvantage (for some users) is that groups cannot be displayed using access keys under a cursor (but it can be solved partially by cutomization of <Space> shortcut).

With regards,

Jan

RE: Edit default attributes and primary in ribbon

Robert Högberg — Thu, 04 Jan 2018 06:06:37 GMT

Hi. That's how I have it today. But if I have a tab without the attribute or primary group, the the commands get messed up. I find it really hard the make a consistent way to work with shortcuts in Connect. I'm trying to mimic the main toolbar from v8i and have the groups like select, manipulate, modify, measure etc. to always be the same shortcut, but it seems Bentley don't want us the work that way anymore, but rather use the mouse for everything.

Saw you answered my ohter question here: Modification tab, and that's another example of where you're not able to make sure the same shortcut always executes the same command. And it also makes my A the shortcut for select all of a sudden, if I follow your recommendation above.

RE: Edit default attributes and primary in ribbon

David Trejo-Rodriguez — Wed, 03 Jan 2018 20:49:48 GMT

The only way I think that it could be achieved is to edit the position mapped keys by deleting the keys associated to attributes & primary, and then moving those to the Task & Ribbon Section see below:

Once that is done you can pine your custom attributes the your current or all workflows.