Selectable "Roles" on the Work Page

Hi Frederik,

does not MicroStation documentation provide the answer?

Regards,

  Jan

I have set the variable _USTN_ROLECFG and it seems to load, but the Role menu om the Work Page does not show up.

Hi Tim,

Tim Hickman said:

Rather than do this thru configurations, it can also be done by workflows in the ribbon, etc...

My experience, with what I see in my customers, is that it's a kind of social theory created in office in ideal conditions.

To switch ribbon workflows is annoying for users, and because it's slow (even when ribbon reacts now faster than before, it's still very slow to initialize), it slows down the whole process.

Moreover, it's very different to prepare "per roles" workflows and to hide/show them intentionally. Users often use the first "seems to be right" tool and do not check whether it's in the right workflow, which can easily lead to the right MicroStation tool but with wrong setting or cell library or whatever else. But at the end, the user will think it does not work.

Tim Hickman said:

Yes the role can do this , but so can the other configs.

I do not think so, because now we have one less (user) option in CE available.

Of course, technically it can be done (and I did it already several times) to prepare more shotcuts on desktop, defining specific variable, so MicroStation can be "optimized" for particular purpose or user. And it's something different than switching workspace or workset, because they are use for different types of configuration.

With regards,

  Jan

setting up workflows in not much different than the pulldown menus in V8i - where a user would scroll down thru a hierarchy of options to get to their needed tool. So I don't see how this is more annoying.

So for you -  instead - the user needs to close the current file they are in and select a different "role" to load their needed tools, etc... ?

Henry Ford said  “If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said ‘faster horses." and Bentley is simply giving you a faster horse instead of an automobile.

Just be careful what you wish for. I believe there can be a better more efficient way of loading various UI situations.

Sorry, it seems we live in different realities ... which is possible because of difference between US and Europe engineering workflows and requirements, styles how projects are structured and created etc. I wrote what I have seen in my customers, that's all.

Tim Hickman said:

setting up workflows in not much different than the pulldown menus in V8i

I did not tell anything about pulldown menus.

My perspective is about to optimize GUI (especially ribbon) for user's task and to minimize - what I hear often - "I cannot find that tool. Ohhh .. I am in wrong workflow ... Let's re-focus eyes from graphic/icons to this small text menu and try to find the right one."

Tim Hickman said:

So for you -  instead - the user needs to close the current file they are in and select a different "role" to load their needed tools, etc... ?

Again, you assume something I did not write. If a user will switch roles often, maybe you are right. But what I see is that a use works for hours or days on one project in his role, and when he changes the role, it's often because he need to do something on another project or object (in the same project), which requires to close the design file anyway and to change the workspace configuration.

Tim Hickman said:

I believe there can be a better more efficient way of loading various UI situations.

When you believe, please show us.

But what Fredrik wrote does make sense to me, because it's what I experienced too, and also what I remember from former discussions about "what roles in MicroStation are for". I am aware it's subjective, but for many users seems to be idea of "role" (as a replacement of removed workspace "user" configuration, available in V8) better than switching workflows in ribbon.

With regards,

  Jan

My perspective is about to optimize GUI (especially ribbon) for user's task and to minimize - what I hear often - "I cannot find that tool. Ohhh .. I am in wrong workflow ... Let's re-focus eyes from graphic/icons to this small text menu and try to find the right one."

but if they are in the wrong "role" they won't find the the tool either and will need to exit the file and pick the correct one with the needed tool(s) .

@Jan - like you mentioned earlier, the role was never clearly defined. So in your case is it merely to drive the UI ?

@Jan - like you mentioned earlier, the role was never clearly defined. So in your case is it merely to drive the UI ?

Tim Hickman said:

but if they are in the wrong "role" they won't find the the tool either and will need to exit the file and pick the correct one with the needed tool(s) .

It sounds a bit like artificial problem. Of course it can happen, but when we have used this solution in V8 products ("user" is not "named user", but "type of user"), it did not happen too often.

Tim Hickman said:

@Jan - like you mentioned earlier, the role was never clearly defined. So in your case is it merely to drive the UI ?

Primarily yes, but not only. It should involve also redefinition of configuration variables (that support GUI or tools configuration consequently).

Unfortunately I have not enough time to write a detail explanation, but simplified example (to highlight some issues), why "start MicroStation with role selected" is better than "to choose from workflows" in my opinion:

In the example, MicroStation workspace is used to represent a project, and a workset represents building object (every project consists from one or more objects).

There always will betools available for everybody, tools available only for specific role(s) and tools similar in all roles, but with different configurations (e.g "place equipment" can be the same tool, but providing different content). It leads to structure (when talking about ribbon) with one or common workflows (e.g. defined MicroStation) and "per role" workflows with some tabs shared and some tabs unique.

GUI simplification:

• Only defined set of workflows (with optimized content) should be available. Can be done easily based on variable visibility test, defined for every workflow. [selected role changes variables]

Customization simplification:

• When there will be "place equipment" tool, in the simplest case it can be controlled by MS_DGNLIBLIST or other variables. [selected role changes variables]
  When there will be more workflows, every tool have to contain own key-in e.g. to attach the right cell library before the tool is started.

Navigation simplification:

• When there are only tools, allowed for active role, available, no problem to use F4 (search).
  But when there are several "per role" workflows ready to be seleted, the search can return several "nearly the same" tools, not clear what belonging to what role. It would require to distinguish them somehow by name, which can be very complicated in some languages (terminology, too long names polluting GUI...).
• Settings like Element templates, build on top of organization/project data standards, can offer only a filtered selections, that makes sense for the role. [selected role changes variables]

When

I see selectable Role configurations as a way to get around setting up different WorkSpaces/WorkSets for different groups of users to load the appropriate resources, not just the gui, but things like cell libs, text styles, seed files, etc.

so with a specific workset loaded which would point to specific cell libs, text styles, seed files, etc... for that specific workset, you need to specify these even further ?

Tim Hickman said:

so with a specific workset loaded which would point to specific cell libs, text styles, seed files, etc... for that specific workset, you need to specify these even further ?

I understand Rod's perspective, because in CE, an option to have configuration orthogonal (independent) to the rest of workspace, which is how .ucf was possible to use in V8, is really missing.

Workspace / workset hierarchy is not bad (with different options what it can represent), but it's not equal to the freedom of V8.

Regards,

  Jan

ok so its not mainly that you get another level of configuration - it is that you get an independent choice not linked to a workspace or workset ?