Cells Disappear Changing Annotation Scale

We have a serious issue that I believe is related to TR#68884 which I found in Cell dissappears at drawing scale 1:100.  We currently have door tags created with the Place DataGroup Annotation tool because we use Drawing Extractions.  Because of the issues we've been having, we started placing the annotations in the same file as the 3D doors.  We extract the plans with walls, doors, windows, and annotations without incident typically to 1/8"=1'-0".  We then reference the extracted file into a drawing model which is 2D.  Then we reference the drawing model into a sheet model which is also 2D.  If the scale is always 1/8"=1'-0", then all is fine.  The problem occurs when we get to enlarged plans where we want to scale up a partial plan to something like 1/4"=1'-0".  The cells disappear in the sheet model completely (nest level 2).  They only disappear in the drawing model (nest depth 1) of the sheet model if we zoom in (a little).

Has anyone else experienced this?  I'll create a support ticket next.

  • Why would you annotate in the 3d model. that is the problem as when made flat onto something like a sheet the confusion starts and something like a slab that is in the same plane of the text can take over.

    We had this happen and the slab would hide half the text as if it was sloped - which it was not

    The very simple solution is NOT TO ANNOTATE IN THE 3d model as that is for Model stuff
    Annotation a BV after it is placed within the 2D Drawing Model - IT HAS TO BE 2D
    Then place onto a sheet that is 2D - it has to be 2D. You can do it 3d but think logically - everything is now being presented as 2d so keep it 2d

    This will fix you issue without fail.

    Ustn since 1988
    SS4 - i7-3.45Ghz-16 Gb-250/1Tb/1Tb-Win8.1-64b

    Eric D. Milberger
    Architect + Master Planner + BIM

    Senior  Master Planner NASA - Marshall Space Flight Center

    The Milberger Architectural Group, llc

  • Hi Mark,
    So you are saying that when reverting back to placing the labels (in the 3D Model) at 0:0 instead of 1/8" above, that the disappearing annotation in the Drawing/Sheet Models is no more?



  • OH and after reading more here is one major piece. If you are ANNOTATING in a 3d file rather than a 2d DRAWING.
    Then all your annotation must be placed at elevations above the objects. This is why for floor plans and anything that is in essence a 2d drawings/BV/DV/DEM should be referenced into a 2d Drawing.

    Ustn since 1988
    SS4 - i7-3.45Ghz-16 Gb-250/1Tb/1Tb-Win8.1-64b

    Eric D. Milberger
    Architect + Master Planner + BIM

    Senior  Master Planner NASA - Marshall Space Flight Center

    The Milberger Architectural Group, llc

  • The seed file for the US is bad in that it starts with a scale at 1:64 or 1/8"
    So if there is something similar in yours.

    You have two options:
    Do it the old way and forget Scale as I still say the benefit is minimal as it is only good when changing form scales that are very close.
    If you use scale then see below as we had similar issues.

    Make sure ALL files have the ACS scale set to 1:1 (I mean your seed files too)
    Then ONLY your drawing files are set - that the model has a scale.
    Drawings are those 2d files where you annotation your BV/DV or Dem files that are references
    Your Sheets are 1:1

    This may not be your issue but similar to what was affecting us.

    Ustn since 1988
    SS4 - i7-3.45Ghz-16 Gb-250/1Tb/1Tb-Win8.1-64b

    Eric D. Milberger
    Architect + Master Planner + BIM

    Senior  Master Planner NASA - Marshall Space Flight Center

    The Milberger Architectural Group, llc

  • I've been asked to verify the answer to this issue and although Steve's suggestion was a good one, it didn't help this particular situation. Our tags were created 1/8" above 0 (Z) as we had prior issues with the elements overlapping and hiding the tag. This causes the cells disappear when enlarging the annotation scale and zooming in. After moving the cell elements to 0 (Z), the issue didn't occur.

    Mark Mates - BIM Manager - Mason & Hanger