Cells Disappear Changing Annotation Scale

We have a serious issue that I believe is related to TR#68884 which I found in Cell dissappears at drawing scale 1:100.  We currently have door tags created with the Place DataGroup Annotation tool because we use Drawing Extractions.  Because of the issues we've been having, we started placing the annotations in the same file as the 3D doors.  We extract the plans with walls, doors, windows, and annotations without incident typically to 1/8"=1'-0".  We then reference the extracted file into a drawing model which is 2D.  Then we reference the drawing model into a sheet model which is also 2D.  If the scale is always 1/8"=1'-0", then all is fine.  The problem occurs when we get to enlarged plans where we want to scale up a partial plan to something like 1/4"=1'-0".  The cells disappear in the sheet model completely (nest level 2).  They only disappear in the drawing model (nest depth 1) of the sheet model if we zoom in (a little).

Has anyone else experienced this?  I'll create a support ticket next.

  • Workflow is crucial.
    the reason this worked for me was:
    I created a design Model and BV
    I referenced the BV into a 3d Drawing Model and it annotated just fine
    I referenced the Drawing Model onto my sheets and the annotations either disappeared or Partially disappeared.
    I would see a work look as if it partially disappeared under a slab
    That was the eppiphany as the slab is 3d, the text is technically 3d and they are BOTH on the plane "0"
    They were fighting for their location and there is no order on which wins

    So if the WORKFLOW is Design Model 3d --> Drawing Model 2d, BV, Annotations --> Sheets
    That will at least eliminate some issues as is logical is it mimics hand done drawings
    Model --> Drawings, scaled xerox copies, annotations --> Sheets run thru a copier

    Ustn since 1988
    SS4 - i7-3.45Ghz-16 Gb-250/1Tb/1Tb-Win8.1-64b

    Eric D. Milberger
    Architect + Master Planner + BIM

    Senior  Master Planner NASA - Marshall Space Flight Center

    The Milberger Architectural Group, llc

  • Thanks for giving it a try, Mark. It's nothing I've had to use myself but thought it could be useful. Either way I'm glad to see that you do have a means to move forward. Defect 68884 is apparently resolved in the MicroStation EAP so we will eventually see that in ABD.



  • I hope that I am not missing something. I hear alot of workarounds and alot of solutions or ways to make this work. I don't have any of the issues you speak of by following the workflow and making sure BVs are referenced only into a 2d Drawing Model before placement on a sheet. That workflow works. And to be honest my model is a 2.5 Gb 3d Group of Ref Models and fully Modeled for all sections and plans and no issues. the workflow solves the issues.

    Ustn since 1988
    SS4 - i7-3.45Ghz-16 Gb-250/1Tb/1Tb-Win8.1-64b

    Eric D. Milberger
    Architect + Master Planner + BIM

    Senior  Master Planner NASA - Marshall Space Flight Center

    The Milberger Architectural Group, llc

  • I've been asked to verify the answer to this issue and although Steve's suggestion was a good one, it didn't help this particular situation. Our tags were created 1/8" above 0 (Z) as we had prior issues with the elements overlapping and hiding the tag. This causes the cells disappear when enlarging the annotation scale and zooming in. After moving the cell elements to 0 (Z), the issue didn't occur.

    Mark Mates - BIM Manager - Mason & Hanger

  • The seed file for the US is bad in that it starts with a scale at 1:64 or 1/8"
    So if there is something similar in yours.

    You have two options:
    Do it the old way and forget Scale as I still say the benefit is minimal as it is only good when changing form scales that are very close.
    If you use scale then see below as we had similar issues.

    Make sure ALL files have the ACS scale set to 1:1 (I mean your seed files too)
    Then ONLY your drawing files are set - that the model has a scale.
    Drawings are those 2d files where you annotation your BV/DV or Dem files that are references
    Your Sheets are 1:1

    This may not be your issue but similar to what was affecting us.

    Ustn since 1988
    SS4 - i7-3.45Ghz-16 Gb-250/1Tb/1Tb-Win8.1-64b

    Eric D. Milberger
    Architect + Master Planner + BIM

    Senior  Master Planner NASA - Marshall Space Flight Center

    The Milberger Architectural Group, llc