DataGroup Explorer and Cells

I am modeling a building with prefabricated concrete facade elements. One element consists of a wall and one ore more windows. In my mind the most natural approach is to collect these parts in a cell. As the design evolves I can edit the facade elements cell by cell. And update the whole building, where the facade is modeled in a series of floor plan models, by updating cells as needed. Then I have to count and annotate both windows and concrete walls.

But DataGroup Explorer can not reveal the contents of cells! I have to drop the cells. But after that it is really cumbersome to edit the facade elements...

How am I supposed to design this kind of facade using ABD?

  • Harry,
    Instead of placing a cell, you could attach the model of the cell as a reference and move/copy/rotate the reference(s) as needed. When you update the referenced model it will automatically be updated throughout your master model without having to use Update Cells. Since the reference does not encapsulate the contents of it like a Cell does, you will be able to read the data of the components within each reference without having to drop it. Additionally, you can actually Activate the reference and make edits to it from the master model to get instant feedback on what the change looks like across the entire façade.

    I hope this helps,
    Travis



  • Correct - once nested within a cell, the sub-component DataGroup info is not accessible to DataGroup Explorer (or any other fashion). This has always been the case, though.

    *Edit: Ignore the below - I see Travis has replied with an alternative method using reference attachments instead.


    Aside from grouping as a cell, placing as a single unit, and then dropping for reporting/modification purposes, I'm not sure there are many other options for the scenario you've described. But I am curious to know how others might approach this type of thing.



  • Or Bentley should just overhaul the Datagroup system. Seems like a huge oversight in the spec in this BIM-crazy world that we live in, where assembly:component modeling is pretty upfront and in-your-face every day.

    Using Ref's is not a long term or sustainable solution. The Ref Dialog already slows to a crawl when we have more than 50+ Refs.De-cell-ing will mean thousands of Refs. Also don't forget that the assembly:component way of modeling means that there will be a lot of nesting. Something else that will slow the Ref Dailog down.

    We also have to publish to Navisworks weekly for coordination. Having everything as separate files will be a problem. Yes, you could probably merge all of the Refs that would normally be Cells before converting, but better to just fix the problem.

    Harry, I would be interested to know:

    1. if the cell info is available if you publish the model as an i-model. This might be the better workaround.
    2. if the Annotation Tools can access the nested cell's DGS info. Say you have a door handle Cell that is nested in a Door Cell, will ABD's Annotation Tool be able to extract and label info tagged onto the door handle?

  • Ok I need some 40 cells(/models) to describe differences in geometry. On every floor I use nearly 50 cells(/models). My building is 12 floors high. Some 600 references just for the facades! I would not even think of trying.
    I used the reference approach in a projekt where I had 5 escalators in a a set of floor plan models. This was long before dynamic views were around. Even with DEM drawings I could not stand the time penalty, so I placed my escalators as cells instead.

    bur thanks for the suggestion
    / Harry
  • An overhaul of the Data Group System is really needed. Why is everything in ABD so complicated? Especially for someone like me who work far from US standards. I have to dig into an overwhelming amount of xml files to adjust the system to deliver what I want and need. Why can't Bentley provide a simple building component editor. An extension of a cell manager able to add instance data to basic geometry created by plain Microstation. And finally get rid of antiques as Frame Builder and PC Studio. Who needs parametric components? These just make reporting more complicated. A cell library with a reliable sync with the projekt models is easier, faster and far more flexible.

    hopefully
    / Harry