DATAGROUPS - user experience and building your own DG

WHO WE ARE:

We are a Belgian architectural office, using AECOsim to do some 3D modeling. In Belgium, we don’t have a CAD standard, and it seems we won’t have one anytime soon.

WHAT WE HAVE DONE SO FAR:

To build our own standard (so at least we have an office standard), we used the BB/SfB system as a backbone. We started transforming the given standard Datasets (GB/US/NM) to create the new Dataset BE. Note this process took a long time…

So we:

  • Created our own levels, Families & Parts, Families & Components;
  • Created Datagroup catalog Items, with we all can categorize in limited amount of Catalog Types (walls, slabs, penetrations, …);

We now have a nice standard workflow based on the Dynamic Views to create drawings from our 3D model. Visually, the output is exactly what we expect, so we are happy with this.

But when it comes to quantities, we still rely on Quantify Tool (based on the Families+Components) to get our output. However, this seems to be the ‘oldschool’ way to do it, and it seems the Datagroup system is the way to go. So now we are facing this challenge (since our boss kinda made it our challenge :-).

WHAT IS OUR PROBLEM:

Starting from the Datagroup Catalog Editor and the Datagroup definitions, this seems a bit too overwhelming. There are over a hundred Catalog Types, each with so many Definitions attached to them, which makes it seem like one big chaos. I know you can delete and detach all you want, but there should be a decent way to start with this. But now it seems like a lot of work, and I’m not sure if it’s realistic to do this on our own. And even when these settings are all corrected, you still need to work on the output Schedules to get the info you want (otherwise it’s just some big data dump).

So in a nutshell: I have no idea if this is actually a good/realistic idea...

SO MY QUESTIONS:

Has anyone here created their own dataset from scratch? Or anyone a better look on these Datagroups?

I would like to know (you can use the number of the question as a reference in your reply, if you feel like answering them specific):

  1. Is it realistic to do the work on your own? Is it worth the effort? (Compared to US/GB who get the dataset with the installation, and have it managed for them?). How much time does something like that have to take?
  2. We have a Belgian company called C3A, building datasets for Revit users, while we as AECOsim users don’t have anything to start/get support from. Isn’t it more realistic for us to switch to Revit if we want to use the full potential of BIM? (personal note: I would feel more comfortable to know we’re not on an empty AECOsim island in a sea of supported Revit users. It feels a bit like we're missing a train here...).
  3. Do we miss anything using the QuantifyTool instead of the Datagroup Shedules? I know it looks like it wouldn’t be supported anymore in next versions, but Datagroups seem to be around for years and the Quantify Tool is still there, so I kinda feel like it’ll still be there when I retire (I’m 32 now… :-)). Bentley only seems to add, never replace…
  4. Most users here are lazy in the settings area: they just want to click and draw. How realistic is it to have a complete Datagroup system, which doesn't require them to create Items?
  5. AECOsim seems to be less closed as Revit (for example: you can draw a lineair form and add a Part definition, visual output is the same, on screen it seems the same element, but it doesn't appear in the Shedules). Anyone noticed any problems with this? (you can't look over every user's back making sure they don't use the 'wrong' way to draw their model.)

  • StefanC

    I cannot recommend this strongly enough: If you are doing major DataGroup catalog work, download the Ss6 EAP. There are massive changes to the DataGroup schema management and reporting features that should make your task much easier.

    -Tom



  • I did install it, but still seems a lot of work. So anyone with any experience to know if it's realistic?

    Windows 10 pro

    OpenBuildings Designer Connect Edition Update 10.10.01.151

  • Hi Stefan,
    To change the whole dataset would be a large task, do you need to cane everything or coils you operate with a smaller set of parts/items? We deliver the neutral metric dataset with the intention that it is used where we do not have a region/language specific dataset.
    Tom's recommendation to use SS6 is absolutely right, the improvements we have made to the interface make any work with the DataGroup much easier.
    Where possible you should put quantities into the DataGroup items.
    When you place generic forms, attach part/family to get the Symbology and attach instance data to get the quantities.

    Regards

    Marc

  • A Risk but the current DG is not one I can use.
    i do however maintain it as my changes just append to the existing.

    It is painful. Partly because it is not user friendly and flat. Not a robust solution to develop a Datagroup of parts.

    I am doing it now. requires, parts, assemblies and DG

    Parts - Easy to build but with awkward tools. I've suggested in another approach going back to the old WYSIWYG for their development. Leave the SML spreadsheet. And divide .xml into a division above that already provided so that you have 3 levels of organization as xml is flat and hard to organize.

    Assemblies - This is for more than FLAT side by side parts. However the function to control merging assemblies that have parts above another is currently project. this needs to be fixed so that you can develop a true wall assembly. Something as simple as a wall with three styles of masonry vertically on top of each other is not possible. (It draws but will not repair) Create a better tool to create the assemblies. To small to see what you are developing and insert does not work well. Pull downs do not work well with a real set of parts.

    DG - I HATE BEING A PROGRAMMER - Awkward. Took for every for one person in a paid class to say. "Just do this to ad your wall." Apparently SS6 will let you know that the walls you create are in your own xml so that you can preserve during updates and keep that xml in your own directory free of any ABD upgrade. Need a complete linkage to the Uniformat and or masterspec. Almost there but not finished. Need better graphics as most dispaly flat (0), and most plat all 0 too. Poor looking drawing. Need utility that when you want an assembly or part to be a DGWall for example - have it take the data already in your part or assembly and create the basics the ASK you questions. this spreadsheet appoach is HARD TO READ - TEENY TINY. Pretend the users are clients and everything needs to be as user friendly as possible.