link between datagroup catalog and standard toolbars

Question

In the datagroup catalog you can define your own items. We have a dataset built from scratch, but it raises some questions. I'll use the Catalog Item "Concrete floor " as an example. 
 Using &ldquo;Slabs&rdquo; or &ldquo;Floors&rdquo;? How do I know which Catalog Type I use for this Catalog Item? 
 I defined the Catalog Item "Concrete Floor" in theCatalog Type "Slabs", which makes it show up using the commando "Slabs". So this works. But there is also a Catalog Type called "Floors". Should I use that one instead? 
 If not, why do we have "Floors" and "Roofs" if I have to define those as &ldquo;Slabs&rdquo;? 
 
 How are the Catalog Types/Items linked to the commandos? Where can I see which toolbar/button they are linked to? 
 If I have to use &ldquo;Floors&rdquo;, which commando do I use to place it? An Item defined in "Floors" it doesn't seem to show up in the place Slab commando, but I have no idea where else it would show up... 
 Is there a way to see only structural elements when using the structural toolbar? 
 My "Concrete floor" shows up in the Slabs using the "place Floor Slab" commando, in both the "Architectural Design" as the "Structural Modelling" buttons. 
 I would expect using the button in the structural toolbar, I would only see the slabs defined as 'structural' in the DataGroup Catalog".

Steve Cocchi · Accepted Answer

The Floor command is a legacy tool, primarily remaining for that purpose. So in general I would suggest using the Place Slab tool since it includes DataGroup data for reporting purposes. Creating a custom Slab catalog item that can be selected from the Place Slab tool's drop-down list, as you've done with Concrete Floor, makes sense to me. 
 
The Place Slab tool itself is shared between the Architectural and Structural tasks since it can apply to either discipline. This is also why the Place Wall tool exists in both locations, along with User Defined and the Compound Cell tool.

Steve Cocchi · Answer

Hi Stefan, 
 Ramps are part of the "User Defined" group of Catalog Types. This is a legacy name, but they're essentially types that were initially defined after the core set of components such as Doors, Windows and Walls, and are included within the _Dataset_catalogtypeexts.xml series of files under the ..\WorkSpace\BuildingDatasets\Dataset_Name\datagroupsystem folder. 
 They can be easily identified in the DataGroup Catalog Editor by the icons with the small white rectangle in the lower right corner. All types within this group can be accessed using the Place User Defined tool and selecting from the Filter drop-down list, but the development team also chose to create dedicated icons for some of the more commonly used types, such as Plumbing Fixtures, Furniture, Ladders, etc.. Choosing Workspace > Customize shows the icons/tools included in each task panel under the Combinedinterface.DGNlib > Architectural Design (task). The complete list of available tools, since not every User Defined tool has a dedicated icon, can be found under Architecture.DGNlib > Architectural Modeling - you'll see that Ramps are listed here since they're defined as a Vertical Circulation type, there just isn't an icon included by default in that task panel. 
 HTH!

PS... Tom, there is no such thing as Platform 9-3/4.... is there? ;-)

Marc Thomas · Answer

Hi Stefan, 
 Floor elements, i.e. slabs should be created under the slab catalog type. The DG Floor item is used to populate properties in Floor Manager, e.g. Approx length/Width, you should not add new Catalog Items under the Floors type (I can understand your confusion though!), here I have modified the dimensions from the defaults, the new floor I then created has picked up those values:

Marc Thomas · Answer

Yes, that's correct, there is a similar item under Buildings. A property added to either item will show up in the Floor Manager so things can be added, for instance I just added this dropdown list of UK Listed Building grades: 
 
 Note I have found that some properties behave slightly differently within the Floor Manager UI, the Hidden checkbox in the DataGroup Item does not hide the property from the UI (although as there would be no point whatsoever in creating a new property then hiding it!) and the default item in a list does not seem to apply which is a fairly minor issue as these properties are only set once per project.

StefanC · Answer

Thanks Tom and Marc, I seem to slowly understand the chaos the DataGroup Catalog seemed at 1st sight ;-) 
 So for example if I have floor insulation, the best thing to do is: 
 
 create a datagroup type called 'floor insulation' 
 link it to the Tool Template 'Place Slab 
 
 That way, it shows up in the Place Slab Tool as shown in Marc's item c). 
 Correct?

Marc Thomas · Answer

Hi Stefan, 
Drag and Drop should work, but only for Catalog Types. Catalog Items cannot be moved to another Catalog Type as they are dependent on the Catalog Type structure. 
If you drag a Catalog Type it will display a red 'invalid' symbol until the mouse passes over a Sub-group folder, then that symbol will disappear and the Catalog Type can be dropped in the Sub-group. 
You can also right-click on a Catalog Type, pick properties then select the Sub-group from the pop-down menu. 
 
If you create a Sub-group but do not move or add a Catalog Type to it before closing DataGroup Catalog Editor it does not appear next time the editor is opened. This may be a designed behaviour to avoid visual clutter in the list or may be a defect. I will enquire. The empty sub-group(s) will be listed in the pop-down list in the Catalog Type Properties dialog, when a Catalog Item is added to the empty Sub-group it will then appear in the tree view.

Marc Thomas · Answer

Hi Stefan, 
The default location for the list of catalog sub-groups is: 
C:\ProgramData\Bentley\AECOsimBuildingDesigner V8i Ss6\WorkSpace\BuildingDatasets\Dataset_GB\datagroupsystem\CatalogTypeGroups.xml 
Do you have a file of this name in your custom dataset? 
I'll see what else I can find out about this file and any control we may have over it's location.