plumbing equipment cells

Where are all the plumbing equipment cells, if they exist? I can only find a cell library with 1 cell for a vessel. I was looking for the pumps cells?

Parents
  • Are you placing pumps with the mechanical tools loaded > Plumbing Design > Pumps Task?

    Regards

    Marc

  • Yes Marc. And I would like to modify just a little bit the geometry of these, but I can't find where they are in the dataset?
  • Hello Pedro, I'm putting out a lot of info here, so a lengthy reply, hope it helps

    The mechanical components in AECOsim Building Designer are 'built on-the-fly' when placed, using the parameter values you set in the DataGroup Instance Data dialog. Each component has a section in the DataGroup Instance Data dialog box for modeling parameters that are specific to that particular component.

    For example when I place a Base Mounted Pump component I have the End Spec2_22 (2 Connections:Round | Round) section and Base Mounted Pump Parameters section available in the DataGroup Instance Data dialog box where I can adjust the actual size of the various pump parts, e.g., Casing Diameter, Motor Diameter, Base Width, Base Length, Casing Offset, Base to Center Elevation, etc. The other groups in the DataGroup Instance Data dialog box like Pump Specifications, Pset_Warranty, etc. are DataGroup properties for reporting.

    In addition to editing the parametric values in the DataGroup Instance Data dialog box the mechanical heads-up view can be used to edit the values. By default this preference is set to use view 8, it opens when you place a component or when you use the Modify Component tool. You can click on the values and edit the field that pops up. Rotating the view will reveal parameters pertinent to that view.

     

    Alternately you can export to Excel to get a 'diagram' of the component and edit the values in Excel and import back to the model. To accomplish this, hover the cursor over the Parameters section in the DataGroup Distance dialog box and right-click to open the pop-up menu that features Export to Excel and Import from Excel tools. I find it is like a 'cut sheet' view of the component and I can see which End Spec2_22 (2 Connections:Round | Round) and Base Mounted Pump Parameters dimensions control.

    You can set the dimensions you would like to be the default by using the DataGroup Catalog Editor. Before any changes are made BACK UP THE XML file, and KEEP A COPY of your changes. Introduced in SELECTseries 6 you can set up a Company (as well as Project) location in your workspace and have the software use your XML file - where you can edit as needed and not change the delivered XML file. Where are the XML files? By default in the workspace here: ...WorkSpace\BuildingDatasets\<regional_dataset>\datagroupcatalogs\ and the plumbing pump component paramters are in this file: Plumbing_lib.xml

    Note where I have <regional_dataset> it depends on the dataset you are using, Dataset_US, Dataset_UK, Dataset_NM, Dataset_SG, etc.

    You'll notice there are other XML files in that folder for other plumbing components and for for the other disciplines.

    And (one more thing to note), there is the RFA Interpreter Wizard and you can import Revit RFA content into the dataset. Here I found a Split-Case Pump - Hortizontal.rfa file on AutoDesk Seek and imported it with the Wizard into my Project dataset.

    These 'interpreted' RFA models can be placed with the Plumbing Design > Place Plumbing Equipment tool. Using the RFA Interpreter Wizard is our September 2016 AECOsim BD Special Interest Group on-line session!  Tuesday, September 20th!

    And here it is placed it in my model:



    Answer Verified By: Steve Cocchi 

Reply
  • Hello Pedro, I'm putting out a lot of info here, so a lengthy reply, hope it helps

    The mechanical components in AECOsim Building Designer are 'built on-the-fly' when placed, using the parameter values you set in the DataGroup Instance Data dialog. Each component has a section in the DataGroup Instance Data dialog box for modeling parameters that are specific to that particular component.

    For example when I place a Base Mounted Pump component I have the End Spec2_22 (2 Connections:Round | Round) section and Base Mounted Pump Parameters section available in the DataGroup Instance Data dialog box where I can adjust the actual size of the various pump parts, e.g., Casing Diameter, Motor Diameter, Base Width, Base Length, Casing Offset, Base to Center Elevation, etc. The other groups in the DataGroup Instance Data dialog box like Pump Specifications, Pset_Warranty, etc. are DataGroup properties for reporting.

    In addition to editing the parametric values in the DataGroup Instance Data dialog box the mechanical heads-up view can be used to edit the values. By default this preference is set to use view 8, it opens when you place a component or when you use the Modify Component tool. You can click on the values and edit the field that pops up. Rotating the view will reveal parameters pertinent to that view.

     

    Alternately you can export to Excel to get a 'diagram' of the component and edit the values in Excel and import back to the model. To accomplish this, hover the cursor over the Parameters section in the DataGroup Distance dialog box and right-click to open the pop-up menu that features Export to Excel and Import from Excel tools. I find it is like a 'cut sheet' view of the component and I can see which End Spec2_22 (2 Connections:Round | Round) and Base Mounted Pump Parameters dimensions control.

    You can set the dimensions you would like to be the default by using the DataGroup Catalog Editor. Before any changes are made BACK UP THE XML file, and KEEP A COPY of your changes. Introduced in SELECTseries 6 you can set up a Company (as well as Project) location in your workspace and have the software use your XML file - where you can edit as needed and not change the delivered XML file. Where are the XML files? By default in the workspace here: ...WorkSpace\BuildingDatasets\<regional_dataset>\datagroupcatalogs\ and the plumbing pump component paramters are in this file: Plumbing_lib.xml

    Note where I have <regional_dataset> it depends on the dataset you are using, Dataset_US, Dataset_UK, Dataset_NM, Dataset_SG, etc.

    You'll notice there are other XML files in that folder for other plumbing components and for for the other disciplines.

    And (one more thing to note), there is the RFA Interpreter Wizard and you can import Revit RFA content into the dataset. Here I found a Split-Case Pump - Hortizontal.rfa file on AutoDesk Seek and imported it with the Wizard into my Project dataset.

    These 'interpreted' RFA models can be placed with the Plumbing Design > Place Plumbing Equipment tool. Using the RFA Interpreter Wizard is our September 2016 AECOsim BD Special Interest Group on-line session!  Tuesday, September 20th!

    And here it is placed it in my model:



    Answer Verified By: Steve Cocchi 

Children
  • Hi Paul, thank you so much for all the information. I particularly like the excel link option.

    From what I understood, the actual geometry can't be changed, just the parameters that already exist, so to get other geometry we have to either import an RFA or use a "dumb" element. I was looking into the creation of something like it's presented in this thread: communities.bentley.com/.../109506 but I was hopping it could be a little bit more simple.

    After exploring some more I noticed that, regardless of the object that we use to export the info into excel, the excel file always has the same number of sheets, with information from other elements that can be placed with the piping tools. This makes me think that all this components work the same, so if I want to build a catalog for the Horizontal Split Case Pump for example, I can just follow this wiki: communities.bentley.com/.../10910.creating-a-custom-manufacturer-s-catalog-for-plumbing-components. ?

    When we place a plumbing object, regardless of it being a pipe, fixture, pump or whatever, the default part is always M-G44 (I'm using Dataset_UK). Shouldn't it be an M-G5...something? Also, I can't find the part definition in the datagroup. Is there a way to change this the part that is assigned by default to the piping components? This question also goes to the centerline and the default level which it is assigned to.

    Thank you
  • Hi Pedro,

    From what I understood, the actual geometry can't be changed, just the parameters that already exist,
    That is correct, you are just adjusting the available parameters. I haven't tried the method for creating AHU to try and create a plumbing component. I'll see if I have some time to try that.

    As far as placing "dumb" elements, you can create a 3D cell or a compound cell (cells that have 3D and 2D parts combined, the 2D is for appearance on drawings) and use the Add DataGroup Instance Data tool to add the information onto the cell for reporting purposes. The parametrics wouldn't be able to be adjusted. But, say you have three different base mounted pumps to use, you model them as cells and add the DG properties as needed. Now you have three different pump configurations to utilize over-and-over.

    so if I want to build a catalog for the Horizontal Split Case Pump for example, I can just follow this wiki:

    Yes. I have uploaded a document developed a couple of years ago on this subject, it is in conjunction with the wiki link you reference:

    AECOsim Building Designer Component Catalog Creation

    When we place a plumbing object, regardless of it being a pipe, fixture, pump or whatever, the default part is always M-G44 (I'm using Dataset_UK). Shouldn't it be an M-G5...something?

    These configuration variables set the default Family & Part for plumbing piping, equipment and fixtures:

    BMECH_FAMILY_PLUMBING_DEFAULT

    BMECH_FAMILY_PLUMBINGEQUIPMENT_DEFAULT

    BMECH_FAMILY_PLUMBINGFIXTURE_DEFAULT

    They are set in the project configuration file (.PCF).

    Seen here in the Dataset_UK (using Configuration Explorer)

     

    You can change the Family & Part during placement in the Building Primary tool bar. In SELECTseries 6 it stays on the last F&P used (I think that came along in Ss6).

    This question also goes to the centerline and the default level which it is assigned to.

    The center-line symbology is a function of the Family & Part system, the Part Centerline Symbology definition. In the Building Primary dialog box, I have my F&P set to M-G5 : M-G501 Cold Water and select the Open Dataset Explorer to Active Part. Set the Parts View to Centerline Symbology. Again it is recommended to make these type of changes at a company or project level of configuration.

    On your question about creating a catalog to use for the plumbing components. As an example in the Dataset_UK there is a catalog for Taco pumps (I'm not familiar with them, looks like a US manufacturer).

    When you load a catalog, in the DataGroup Instance Dialog Box > Properties > Catalog name field, the parameters populate with values from that catalog, you can't change values that are not in that catalog, but you can use the Manufacturer Catalog function to query and select components from that catalog. To access it for base mounted pumps, hover your cursor over the Base Mounted Properties section in the DataGroup Instance Dialog Box right-click and choose Manufacturer Catalog or use the AccuDraw HC keyboard shortcut. This is what you will utilize ion the software if you create a new catalog following the wiki and document I posted.

    Again, hope this helps.



  • Hi Paul,

    Did you manage to try the method for creating AHU to try and create a plumbing component yet?

    Anyway, I've been doing some more digging and I have some new questions:

    - In the datagroupcatalogs folder in the dataset I can see one manufacturers xmls and access file called ANSI-ASME that doesn't appear in the datagroup instance data placement options when placing a plumbing component (pipes):

    - Maybe I'm just missing the tool but I wasn't able to find a way to place mitered elbows with the plumbing options...?

  • Hi Pedro,

    I have not had a chance to try the AHU builder for plumbing equipment yet.

    On the ANSI-ASME catalog, this is a USA standards based catalog, I can use it when I am in a project using the Dataset_US, but not the Dataset_UK. As far as I can tell the program handles which catalogs to make available for a particular dataset. I don't see any configuration variable that sets which catalogs to make available. I'm thinking it only shows ones that are set up as International System (metric) for use in the SI based datasets. The ANSI-ASME catalog is set up to use Imperial System (feet/inches) so it is available in the Dataset_US. (I just checked the Dataset_NM and ANSI-ASME is available and Dataset_USM and it is not available...)

    There is not a plumbing mitered elbow tool as of the Ss6 version. In theory I can create a surface extrusion using the Surface by Extrusion Along tool. I can create that with a family & part or apply a F&P later and can add DataGroup information to the surface to get DG reporting, it would not be parametric in any fashion. I suppose I could create several at different diameters and segment configurations to create a cell library of 'static' mitered elbows and place them in t he model as needed.

      



  • Hi Paul,

    I'm having a situation here... I've been following your resources (http://communities.bentley.com/products/building/building_analysis___design/m/building_analysis_and_design_gallery/272072) to create a manufacturers catalog, but I just hit a wall. I have the mdb set up already, and I was able to make the pipes work. I then moved on to the crosses but for some reason it's not working anymore. I've been looking at this for hours but I can't figure out what's wrong. Do you mind taking a look? I'm attaching the mdb and the mapping xml.

    Thanks

    Test-Plumbing.zip