How can I prevent the filled shape when placing a Space?

Hi,

When you place a Space using the delivered dataset a filled shape element appears. It doesn't seem to exist within the 'Space Label' cells, part, datagroup system or a setting in the 'Annotate Tool Settings' dialog box. How can it be removed?

Thanks,

Dan

 

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  • The filled shape along with text is draw artifact which gives information about Space label,Actual area,program area,Room Number.This information is fixed and non editable and different than information in DG annotation label for space.

    To hide it set configuration variable "BB_SPACES_NOARTIFACT"

    HTH

    Tx

    Abhay 

     

  • Abhay,

    What was the logic behind this. More importantly how do we get our old graphically and contet controlled space labels back?

    There appears to be a logic in the other drawing rules controlled dg annotations that works something along the lines of only appearing in sheets - will this work with thedg space annotations.

    Have you also realised that these aren't dynamically placed either.

    Furthermore - where does the label come from - in our bespoke dataset which I am moving across to v8i I get nothing but a little box with no text in it?

    Robert

  • Hi, Robert and Dan,

    Here's the long answer, so please bear with me.  And for clarity, I am going to use the term "model container" to refer to the way DGN files can be split up into separate storage areas.  I am doing this to differentiate between these containers and our architectural building models.

    There is a Platform philosophy for Dynamic Views of keeping Annotation and Building graphics separate - annotation goes on in a sheet or drawing model container, building graphics go in a 3D model container.  There are some good, solid reasons for this. For one, it prevents annotation showing up "edge on" in section and elevation views.  But it conflicts just a little with some of our building components.  Space Annotation is a good example.  Spaces are a combination of a shape and annotation. This combination is an important "design" tool as well as a component for storing and reporting space information.  Users need to be able to see the "Area" value for a space and see it adjust as walls are repositioned - hence the "design" nature of spaces.   Spaces also help users know where they are in a building.  Both of these needs require some type of space information be available in the 3D building model container even though annotation needs to be outside of the 3D model container in a sheet model container.

     Understanding the need for a quick and easy way to do this, we created a space label "artifact" so that when spaces are placed in the 3D building model container the basic "design" and "location" information would be available immediately to the user, information such as Space Name, Space Number, and Area.  Out of the box a user can start placing Spaces in the 3D building model container giving immediate visual feedback via the space "artifact."

    Once a Building View is created for a floor plan of the 3D building and that view is used to attach the 3D building as a reference file to a sheet model container, Drawing Rules take over and the "artifact" disappears and is replaced by the DataGroup Annotation Space Label.  In the sheet model container all of the Annotation Settings should apply.  If you have specified a project specific or office specific DG Space Label Annotation cell in the Annotation Settings dialog then the Drawing Rules will use it (or you could override the space label cell in the Drawing Rule itself giving you the ability to quickly switch from one rule to another resulting in instant changes to the appearance of the space label - for instance, one rule could simple display Space Name and Number.  Another rule could specify a different space label that shows Name, Number, Area and Finishes)

    So, how do you get the display of the space label to appear like you want it to in the 3D building model container?  We can accommodate that as well by taking advantage of Dynamic Views, Drawing Rules technology, and the ability to write to multiple model containers at the same time.  Create a 2D sheet model container within your active design file to store the Space Label Annotation created by the Drawing Rules.  You can then reference this back to the 3D building model container and, since both of these model containers are in the same DGN the Drawing Rules software will have read/write access to both model containers at the same time.  (NOTE: you would probably only want to use these 2D sheet models for referencing to the 3D building model.  You will want to create separate DGN files for the actual 2D sheet models you will use to compose the Bordered sheet that will end up being plotted. Otherwise, all your sheets will be in a single DGN and only one person will be able to access them at a time.)

    1. Add the configuration variable BB_SPACES_NOARTIFACT and set it to "1". Exit Bentley Architecture/MicroStation completely and restart Bentley Architecture.  This will prevent the space label artifact from displaying.
    2. In the 3D building model setup the floor plan view for your floor using the Create Views-->Floor Plan View command.
    3. Use Create Building View & Drawing command to create the sheet model container and automatically have the view attached as a reference file.  (do not use the option to open the drawing/sheet, you want to stay in the 3D building model container)
    4. Use the Attach Reference file command to attach the Sheet/Drawing model container to your 3D building model container. When doing so make sure in the Attach Ref dialog box you use the "Model" pulldown to select the sheet model container created by the Create Building View & Drawing command.  Make sure "No Nesting" is active. This will cause only the annotation to get referenced, no walls, doors, windows, etc. will be displayed, since they are referenced one level deeper.
    5. If you already have spaces placed in your 3D building model container you will see the DG Space Annotation Labels appear.  If you adjust the position of any of the walls bounding a space you will see the Area in the space label update even though the space label is actually in a different model container.  If you add new spaces in the 3D building model container you will see them appear even though the labels are actually being placed in the 2D sheet model container.

    It does take just a little bit of set up to do this, but it will give you the same look and feel you had in XM if you prefer it.  The only difference is that to reposition the location of a space label would require you to open the sheet model container and make the move there.  And, even though this does sound like several steps, it actually takes less time to set it up than it does to read through this explanation.

    This will also work for door and window bubbles as well.  If you use this setup you can see the door/wiindow bubbles appear as new doors/windows are being placed even though the bubbles are being placed in the 2D sheet model container.

    You should be able to set this up in your seed files so the 2D sheet model is already created, the Bldg View is created in the 3D building model container and the reference attachment of the 2D to the 3D is also created.  Then, you just design as usual.

    Give it a try and let me know if you run into any problems.

    Sincerely,

    Steve Stevens
    Product Manager - Bentley Architecture

     

     

     

     
  •  I've found (regardless of Artifact visibility settings) that by generating an Extraction, the Artifact will not be visible, and you can easier place DataGroup Annotation for the Space Labels.

  • Hi Steve,

    thanks a lot for your detail explanation, I have one question not directly related to spaces annotations, but it relates to your text, so I don't want to start a new thread.

    The idea of the separation of model (3D) or drawing (2D) and annotations (labels, texts, dimensions ...) is very strong in V8i and it makes sense in general. But with this approach implemented into Bentley Architecture, where dimensions should be placed? If I create sheet based on Building Named View and put dimensions here, association doesn't work despite of Association toggle setting. On the other hand it works well if I place dimensions directly into 3D model and if not cut by view, they are displayed in the sheet without any problem ... but it is in conflict with the idea to split design and annotations.

    What is a general recommendation? To insert another 3D model container, reference the building model and in the created 3D model container put all dimensions and to create building named view definitions here? In such case all building design will be in one or more 3D design models, they will be referenced into another 3D model, where only annotations will be placed and from it the sheet based on saved view definition will be created. Is it correct?

    TIA Jan

Reply
  • Hi Steve,

    thanks a lot for your detail explanation, I have one question not directly related to spaces annotations, but it relates to your text, so I don't want to start a new thread.

    The idea of the separation of model (3D) or drawing (2D) and annotations (labels, texts, dimensions ...) is very strong in V8i and it makes sense in general. But with this approach implemented into Bentley Architecture, where dimensions should be placed? If I create sheet based on Building Named View and put dimensions here, association doesn't work despite of Association toggle setting. On the other hand it works well if I place dimensions directly into 3D model and if not cut by view, they are displayed in the sheet without any problem ... but it is in conflict with the idea to split design and annotations.

    What is a general recommendation? To insert another 3D model container, reference the building model and in the created 3D model container put all dimensions and to create building named view definitions here? In such case all building design will be in one or more 3D design models, they will be referenced into another 3D model, where only annotations will be placed and from it the sheet based on saved view definition will be created. Is it correct?

    TIA Jan

Children
  • Hi, Jan,

    Until we get the Associative Dimensioning fixed I recommend placing the dimensions in the 3D model.  The separation of building graphics from annotation graphics is not a hard and fast rule that you must follow.  It just makes it a lot easier to organize.  For example, if you place dimensions in the top view of the 3D model you will have to remember to turn that dimension level off when you generate an elevation view of the 3D model.  

    Sincerely,

    Steve Stevens
    Product Manager - Bentley Architecture