Unwanted Levels in Seed Files

Re: Unwanted Levels in Seed Files; any file actually

Eric Milberger — Thu, 26 Sep 2013 18:39:44 GMT

My reason is for ABD. And After that I don't know. Starting with a small group of lines too but trying to make all my sections/plans smart - self generating.

When I create a CMU Wall - the Plan Section is different than the Wall Section. (Horiz vs Vert)

There are other materials like pans that a Same.

I can only apply one Centerline Style - and as noted it is only ONE level.

When I carete the line style I can provide two deferent Point Centerlines for a better description.

One cell is the Plan one is the Section

The Plan is Green and The Section is Red as they take the symbology of the cell

I'd like the level to be the symbol level also. But this is not allowed.

If I could do both I could ccut one level off in hte Section and One when I BV the Plan

Then I can make a part show differently in a section than a plan.

Keeping things open to future possibilities.

Re: Unwanted Levels in Seed Files; any file actually

fostertom — Thu, 26 Sep 2013 15:48:44 GMT

[quote user="Eric Milberger"]Centerlines need their own level and fill does too. Forward, reflected, etc. all need their own level.[/quote]Volker says they needn't, so it seems optional. So what benefits in doing it?

Re: Unwanted Levels in Seed Files; any file actually

Eric Milberger — Thu, 26 Sep 2013 15:42:29 GMT

Parts needs some tweeking for sure. Centerlines need their own level and fill does too. Forward, reflected, etc. all need their own level. What a level cannot be created when used is beyond me. We take a rocket to the moon with less than an 8088 chip so why not just add levels as the item is placed.

Linesstyles need levels to so a line symbol can have more than one level. I know that gets tricky but that would be considered a different type of linestyle. (Centerline - two levels - one for plan section - one for wall section. Same Part)

Re: Unwanted Levels in Seed Files; any file actually

fostertom — Thu, 26 Sep 2013 15:30:36 GMT

Reviving this thread because Marc referred me to it in An empty Workspace?.

[quote user="Volker Thein [Bentley]"]

The parts and family system can define different levels for forwarded, cut, reflected and centerline graphics. Since the Drawing Extraction Manager created new elements in a separate file, this was not a problem. However, Dynamic Views do not create new elements or create separate files, as the same data is just displayed in a different presentation. The problem is that these alternate presentations cannot be created on levels that do not already exist. Therefore, as a workaround, the dataset is scanned for undefined levels, which are then added to the DGN-file. As a result, users may have levels in their DGN-files that they believe they have not used.

This scan is performed by default to support Dynamic Views. However, if the configuration variable BB_DVDATASETELEMENTS in C:\Program Files\Bentley\MicroStation V8i\Triforma\config\atflocal.cfg is commented out this scan and the creation of undefined levels is disabled. However, this is likely to lead to problems in Dynamic Views!

If the Section, F&R view, and Center line levels are identical to the model levels there is no need to scan the part files and to add undefined levels.[/quote]

I have long wondered why it's thought necessary to place forward, cut, reflected and centerline graphics each on a separate (variant) level for each Part. Why shouldn't "Section, F&R view, and Center line levels [be] identical to the model levels"? How would having these on separate levels be useful?

This is described "as a workaround". What might a mature, non-workaround process look like?

What if I decide to not use Levels like this, as a way of making visible or invisible, all the instances of each individual Part? What if I prefer instead to use Levels for some other purpose e.g. as a way of making invisible or invisible, whole chunks of the building, so I can e.g. switch perimeter chunk(s) off and can then see the interior of the building? Doesn't the Datasets' assumption that levels should be used in one way, lock out other possible ways of using Levels?

The question is serious (to me), because using Levels is the only workable way I have found, to view and work on the building's interior. Seems MS is sorely deficient in quick ways to do this - buggy (now you see it now you don't) non-recallable Clip Volume hopeless IMHO; Peter F in Accessing 3D model's interior :

fostertom:

found Display depth, Clip volume and Clip mask quite baffling. Is that how I should make part of the model invisible, so I can see inside? If not, what are these for?

If switching Levels on and off is a good method, should I be organising them into Filter/groups?

1. Clips and various things around them (Dynamic Views, markers, etc) are the way to go. The whole idea with these tools/methods is designed with drawing extractions in mind (DEM style - acronym used since the Triforma days) therefore are very poor as true design aids in 3d work. But ... there's no other way.

2. If you want to understand why the "poor" comments of mine....find a friend who's expert with Siemens NX/Catia and ask him a demo tour.

I did just that, and NX (also Spaceclaim) are streets ahead of MS at on-the-fly hiding (and/or transparenting). E.g. you can pick a placed element, and 'closer' elements 'in front' of it (as you rotate the model) can go progressively transparent, shading to invisible.

Re: Unwanted Levels in Seed Files; any file actually

Eric Milberger — Wed, 14 Jan 2009 20:36:59 GMT

This is actually part of a bigger discussion.

PARTS and CATALOGS

Without great detail or discussion - I feel that there needs to be a greatter discussion of where parts and catalags fit and how they will evolve. Also greater thought and then input from the users.

I am constantly told that NO direction is given to how to use BA as it must remain flexible. However it is obvious that the users see otherwise as the first thing syou see in the support groups is the request for datasets.

Therefore a methodology for using BA is important. And if you look at BA's competitor it is usable out of the box. This being said and to keep industry compatability.

This being said we need a complete group or organized parts and a complete Group of Organized Assemblies

Use Masterformat for Parts and Uniformat for Assemblies

Re: Unwanted Levels in Seed Files; any file actually

Neal Kruse — Wed, 14 Jan 2009 00:13:05 GMT

Hi Volker:

In my opinion, the big problem here is the BB_DVDATASETELEMENTS should NOT be set up the way it is. As mentioned, you have to be careful to COMMENT OUT this variable in the atflocal.cfg BEFORE you open any other files your will populate those files too with unwanted levels.

How intuitive is that? I added levels to several files without even realizing it. This is not expected from past history with BA.

If a users works with a full level set containing everything in his parts library, I take it he does not need this feature.

Perhaps there is a way to check AGAINST THE EXISTING level set BEFORE adding datatset elements to each of these levels.

Perhaps the new levels could be inserted when you start to use Dynamic Views, instead of when you open the file.

I have two questions for you:

1. Is there an intention for a new release of BA V8i soon?

2. How EXACTLY does the BB_DVDATASETELEMENTS variable FIND and CREATE the levels to put in the drawings? I am finding levels that do not appear in any of my catalogue files or parts files.

Neal Kruse

Re: Unwanted Levels in Seed Files; any file actually

Volker Thein [Bentley] — Mon, 05 Jan 2009 17:53:57 GMT

Please note the following explanation re. unwanted levels in any Bentley Architecture file:

If the Section, F&R view, and Center line levels are identical to the model levels there is no need to scan the part files and to add undefined levels.

Note: When editing a dgnlib file in Bentley Architecture, make sure that BB_DVDATASETELEMENTS is not defined, i.e. it should be commented out in the configuration file C:\Program Files\Bentley\MicroStation V8i\Triforma\config\atflocal.cfg.

To delete the unwanted elements that carry the level information, use File > Compress > Options > Delete Building Dataset Elements.

Hope this helps.

Regards,

Volker Thein [Bentley]

Re: Unwanted Levels in Seed Files

Eric Milberger — Mon, 05 Jan 2009 04:17:12 GMT

All you have alot of garbage levels in the library files. I went in and clieaned all these up and have gotten ridden of many levels as I had a University Clients who does not want to see anything but approved levels. USES the AIA Level set up.

Eric

Re: Unwanted Levels in Seed Files

Rodney Austin — Fri, 02 Jan 2009 03:44:30 GMT

Hi Brian,

Thanks for the referal

Looks like the same issue.

FYI Bentley have logged a service ticket for this issue.

Hopefully will be resolved in the near future.

Best regards

Rodney

Re: Unwanted Levels in Seed Files

Brian Thomas — Thu, 01 Jan 2009 02:52:13 GMT

Check out this thread...sounds like the same thing. http://communities.bentley.com/products/building/building_analysis___design/f/5917/t/13113.aspx

Re: Unwanted Levels in Seed Files

Rodney Austin — Tue, 30 Dec 2008 22:01:46 GMT

Leonardo,

Not yet. Will keep you posted if I disciver anything further.

All the best

Rodney

Re: Unwanted Levels in Seed Files

Leon46 — Tue, 30 Dec 2008 12:08:08 GMT

Rodney

No issue with the Datagroup Catalog and Datagroup Definition editors in my machine (Windows XP32 professional sp2). I know nothing about VCRedist.exe, so I can't help you. In the meantime have you fixed this issue?

Ciao

Leonardo

Re: Unwanted Levels in Seed Files

Rodney Austin — Tue, 30 Dec 2008 06:28:46 GMT

Leonardo,

Thanks for the info.

I suspected something like that and was busy looking at the settings in the cfg files to determine whether it was possible to reset this. Have not found anything yet.

Regarding the Datasets have you also found an issue with the Datagroup catalog and Datagroup editor exe files?

I posted a thread regarding this a couple days back.

All the best

Rodney

Re: Unwanted Levels in Seed Files

Leon46 — Tue, 30 Dec 2008 03:24:39 GMT

Hi Rodney

After some investigation I have found that all these levels are related to the parts defined in the dataset explorer. So, f.i., if the part "concrete" is assigned to a level "A-WALL-FULL" than this level become an used level and can't be deleted. This is related, I think; to the Dinamic View support.

If you want to use the levels associated with the relevant dgnlib file you shoul reassign all your parts to these levels.

Hth

Leonardo

Re: Unwanted Levels in Seed Files

Daniel Tartaglia — Tue, 30 Dec 2008 03:11:59 GMT

I get the same results. I can compress the levels and get rid of the 'used' ones if under Compress->Options I enable the setting: Delete Unused Levels. Can you verify you have this setting enabled? It doesn't really matter. After I compress the levels, save settings, save the DGN then reopen it, the same levels are 'used'. This seems to be a bug. Can someone from Bentley respond?

Thanks,

Dan

Re: Unwanted Levels in Seed Files

Rodney Austin — Tue, 30 Dec 2008 01:23:04 GMT

Thanks Dean,

I have tried that as well as Select By Attributes. Neither method finds any elements.

It seems that Architecture creates these levels automatically no matter what original seed file is opened.

If I open the same seed file in just MicroStation these levels do not appear.

Re: Unwanted Levels in Seed Files

Dean Lyon — Tue, 30 Dec 2008 00:37:49 GMT

When I used to want to get rid of no-seeums in Microstation I would create a fence around the drawing and then do a Void-Fence delete. You could turn off the levels you want to protect and make a small fence to get all of the elements removed from the levels you want them removed from. Hope that helps.