editing the datagroup catalog

i have checked and this question was previously asked but not entirely sure about the answer

i want to go through the datagroup catalog for specific catalogs such as st.gobain: ensign & timesaver, victaulic and other mpipe types to include all the options for their fittings

  • when i go to the datagroup catalog editor, instances are listed but do not give the manufacturer type
  • i would like to create a full set of manufacturers fittings for a full range of pipework & ductwork types

my question is

  • if i was to add new catalog instances for manufacturer fittings, how do i protect that work from being overwritten on subsequent software updates
  • if i create new fittings for an entirely new manufacturer name would those fitings work together? ie if i place a pipe/duct using new catalog manufacturer, would the program find bends etc also added to the datagroup automatically?
  • if all that worked can i copy out the datagroup and use in other places of work? (if i change projecty or job)
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  • This sounds like the manufacturers component is not fully incorporated into Aecosim... The object placed would be generated by Aecosim and be tagged with the manufacturer's business info only.

    Say you have a catalog of plumbing equipment like pipes and elbows from a particular manufacturer. Let's say that manufacturer has 45 deg elbows that are actually bent to 46 degs. Aecosim would still be able to place 45 deg elbows erroneously . 

  • Steve,

    having looked into the catalogs by reviewing them using excel, the information looked quite extensive. in reality the plumbing package does not place fittings from the same catalog as the pipe. Trying to edit the pipe fitting to find the catalog doesn't work either, as it will not accept a like catalog.

    having come to the conclusion that Bentleys fittings don't join together catalog to catalog, trying to create catalogs using an access database & XML mapping files seems pointless.

    I have placed a service request at the end of last year over this and not had any satisfactory replies. When i went back to review the request it had disappeared, it seems like all trace of my request has been deleted.

    I am in the process of creating a catalog of fittings graphically as a workaround but this is going to take a long time

    Accuracy is very important and it looks like the only way to get that it to assume all the pipe fittings in bentleys 'catalogs' are only an interpretation of the actual fittings.

    As BIM expects more from the model and the claims from the software vendors get ever more ahead of the reality the only way to meet clients expectations it to try and take ownership of the problem by creation libraries if pipe fittings and manually placing them into the model. (also ductwork and electrical fittings) 

    David Turner

    MEP 3D coordination & BIM Technician

    Rail Projects

  • Dominic

    the catalog instance of say a victaulic bend or tee when created using a join tool is not dimensionally accurate and also does not match the catalog of the pipes

    if you try to edit the fitting in the data instance dialog it will not let you change the dimensions

    fir that reason it’s looking like it’s necessary to create an entire library of fittings and place them manually into the model. For some reason there is no couplers in the fitting catalog so using manufacturers cells looks the only way forward on that. Problem there is unlike the pipes and fitting they won’t display correctly in the 2d drawings

    David Turner

    MEP 3D coordination & BIM Technician

    Rail Projects

  • Yea... I think that the Mech tools were written well before this level of BIM fidelity was 'standard'.

    The ducting, piping tools geometry behaviour are probably coded to emulate a certain set of generic rules which do not account for or look at what the individual components charateristics are. As mentioned, I think Aecosim sort of fakes the incorporation of manufacturer's components by retaining its inbuilt geometry/objects... and just attaches a non-graphic reference to the manufacturer's components.... so that the downstream consumers of the BIM model can 'pretend' all the info is correct.

    Probably falls short of BS 1192 LOD requirements, as parameters like bend angles would have serious knock on impacts on the connecting pipe's slope, length etc. Unreliable quantity take offs and clashes? Aecosim seems to have a pretty complacent attitude towards LOD at the moment. But, I can see manufacturers starting to driving what is LOD 100/200/300 etc in future... for both the design and analytical side of any BIM app.

    Worth checking if the bend or tee objects have .paz files. If so, it might be possible to import your manufacturer's components via .rfa (Revit).

    Might also be worth asking in the OpenPlant forum whether OpenPlant has the same problem. Process plant piping tools tend to be much more spec / manufacturer's component aware / driven.

    Sounds like a good Wagnerian topic for a future SIG.

  • Dominic

    i was beginning to think the MEP interests didn’t exist due the the silince comming from my posting.

    or perhaps I had missed somthing in the way the tools should be used and no one was saying anything

    thank-you for your comments, it confirms then it’s not just me seeing the fittings as not accurate.

    I had concidered using revit files but  the end client requires us to use ‘native’ V8 dgn files using microstation line styles and the clients levels. RFA files in that case would still need a lot of conversion and look rubbish when the drawing was cut or in a dynamic view

    ive resolved to create a parts drawing for as many pipe types as I think I am likely to use.

    it seems amazing that these don’t already exist. 

    David Turner

    MEP 3D coordination & BIM Technician

    Rail Projects