[OBD U5] AU dataset - placing member by centroid

RE: [OBD U5] AU dataset - placing member by centroid

Sandeep Punewar — Fri, 16 Aug 2019 12:36:52 GMT

😊, Thanks for the appreciation .

Best Regards,

Sandeep

RE: [OBD U5] AU dataset - placing member by centroid

Raguram Jayaram — Thu, 15 Aug 2019 13:43:32 GMT

hi Dominic,

[quote userid="297179" url="~/products/building/building_analysis___design/f/aecosim-speedikon-forum/183504/obd-u5-au-dataset---placing-member-by-centroid/537860"]Do you guys keep a log that tracks the updates and changes made by each team?[/quote]

Notes about the dataset, with CONNECT Editions especially, the dataset updates (delta) are included in the Dataset_XXX folder as a pdf document. This would be helpful I suppose.

RE: [OBD U5] AU dataset - placing member by centroid

Raguram Jayaram — Thu, 15 Aug 2019 13:15:46 GMT

Thank you, Sandeep.

RE: [OBD U5] AU dataset - placing member by centroid

Tuan Le — Wed, 14 Aug 2019 11:06:03 GMT

Thanks Sandeep

RE: [OBD U5] AU dataset - placing member by centroid

Sandeep Punewar — Wed, 14 Aug 2019 10:21:57 GMT

Hi Tuan,

Sections files have Centroid property added , but centroid is not calculated and hence we need to add manually as Raguram said.

Thanks for pointing this out, I have raised this issue [Defect 1049499].

Best Regards,

Sandeep

RE: [OBD U5] AU dataset - placing member by centroid

dominic SEAH — Wed, 14 Aug 2019 06:40:42 GMT

Yes, and it will probably get worse before getting better as new tools and functionality are introduced. I wonder if there is enough attention/ resourcing given to the effect new changes or tools have on the existing dataset components.

A big selling point for BIM apps is the OOTB component library. One reason ArchiCAD was very successful growth-wise was the fact that the comprehensive and finely-tuned components that came with the app. The target market / user was a sole practitioner that did mainly residential work. Sole practitioners who did not have much time to understand IT, be a super scripter etc... on a Macintosh (naturally!). He could confidently do a resi job using the industry standard details without having to tinker.

Bentley seems to have gone in the opposite direction, by not paying attention to the dataset, assuming that there will be copious resourcing on the user side to author and maintain site-specific datasets. Big projects. Big users.

This is now becoming a big problem and more and more competitors appear, and more and more CAD admins with Bentley know how retire... leaving younger ones who are overwhelmed and reluctant to report problems.

RE: [OBD U5] AU dataset - placing member by centroid

Tuan Le — Wed, 14 Aug 2019 03:18:11 GMT

[quote userid="297179" url="~/products/building/building_analysis___design/f/aecosim-speedikon-forum/183504/obd-u5-au-dataset---placing-member-by-centroid/537860"]quality of the components[/quote]

In my oppinion, since SS6, CE offerings have been anything but.

RE: [OBD U5] AU dataset - placing member by centroid

dominic SEAH — Tue, 13 Aug 2019 07:24:34 GMT

Raguram,

I am told that there are separate teams responsible for each location-based dataset. Do you guys keep a log that tracks the updates and changes made by each team?

These days, the quality of the components available is a huge part of any BIM authoring app. It would be good to be consistent. A problem with the components / dataset will stop new users in their tracks and discourage them from learning OBD.

RE: [OBD U5] AU dataset - placing member by centroid

Tuan Le — Mon, 12 Aug 2019 04:28:04 GMT

Hi Raguram,

Just wondering if we've got defect numbers for these issue?

Best regards,

Tuan Le

RE: [OBD U5] AU dataset - placing member by centroid

Raguram Jayaram — Tue, 06 Aug 2019 15:17:11 GMT

Hi Tuan,

Thank you for summarizing. Appreciate your time.

Best Regards,

RJ.

RE: [OBD U5] AU dataset - placing member by centroid

Tuan Le — Tue, 06 Aug 2019 13:30:28 GMT

Thanks Raguram. So there are 2 issues here:

1 - All non US datasets are missing centroid data for structural shapes.

2 - Centroid placement option is enabled where it should not be able to, as per documentation.

If I can have both filed as defects, that would be greatly appreciated.

Best regards,

Tuan Le

RE: [OBD U5] AU dataset - placing member by centroid

Raguram Jayaram — Tue, 06 Aug 2019 13:27:28 GMT

[quote userid="961101" url="~/products/building/building_analysis___design/f/aecosim-speedikon-forum/183504/obd-u5-au-dataset---placing-member-by-centroid/536684"] can I request it to be filed and fixed? [/quote]

I have reached out to our support team and sought their assistance for resolving it.

RE: [OBD U5] AU dataset - placing member by centroid

Raguram Jayaram — Tue, 06 Aug 2019 13:23:37 GMT

Hi Tuan,

The quote is from the application documentation.

https://docs.bentley.com/LiveContent/web/Designer%20Help-v1/en/PlaceSteelBeamPrimary.html

As you described, the behavior of enabling centroid placement needs to be verified.

RE: [OBD U5] AU dataset - placing member by centroid

Tuan Le — Tue, 06 Aug 2019 10:06:13 GMT

[quote userid="13063" url="~/products/building/building_analysis___design/f/aecosim-speedikon-forum/183504/obd-u5-au-dataset---placing-member-by-centroid/536666"]The Centroid placement point is enabled only if the section is fully symmetric (wide flange I beam) or if the section properties includes a value for centroid.[/quote]

Hi Raguram, going by the above quote, why does the centroid placement is still enabled in the placement ribbon when there's no centroid information in the defective xmls?

RE: [OBD U5] AU dataset - placing member by centroid

Tuan Le — Tue, 06 Aug 2019 08:09:52 GMT

To me it's more of a defect. Whichever way you want to call it, can I request it to be filed and fixed?

RE: [OBD U5] AU dataset - placing member by centroid

Raguram Jayaram — Tue, 06 Aug 2019 07:54:03 GMT

Tuan,

I am not sure why the centroid information is missed out in the other datasets. Perhaps an enahncement shall be filed to include them.

Based on my test case and understanding, looks to me placement by centroid is working as designed.

Best regards,

RJ.

RE: [OBD U5] AU dataset - placing member by centroid

Tuan Le — Tue, 06 Aug 2019 07:41:35 GMT

[quote userid="13063" url="~/products/building/building_analysis___design/f/aecosim-speedikon-forum/183504/obd-u5-au-dataset---placing-member-by-centroid/536666"]Centroid values (X, Y) can be added or modified for various section profiles by editing the xml files, using an xml editor or using the StructuralShapesTemplate.xls in the Data folder.[/quote]

But why those information was not included in datasets other than US? I wouldn't have thought it is up to end users to fill that in. If this is not a defect in AU, DE, NM, NZ, CN, DK, ES, FR, IT, SE and SG dataset, does that mean OBD U5 works as designed?

Best regards,

Tuan Le

RE: [OBD U5] AU dataset - placing member by centroid

Tuan Le — Tue, 06 Aug 2019 07:37:59 GMT

Hi Raguram,

I first raised the issue back in SS6. Was told it's been fixed in CONNECT. See here:

https://communities.bentley.com/products/building/building_analysis___design/f/aecosim-speedikon-forum/161065/abd-ss6---centroid-information-for-member-placement

Then as you can see here, I was told it is working correctly in CONNECT.

Now you are telling me that I need to do some more work with the files delivered by Bentley to make it work correctly.

So which is it?

Best regards,

Tuan Le

RE: [OBD U5] AU dataset - placing member by centroid

Raguram Jayaram — Tue, 06 Aug 2019 07:28:29 GMT

Hi Tuan,

The Centroid placement point is enabled only if the section is fully symmetric (wide flange I beam) or if the section properties includes a value for centroid.

Section properties are defined within xml files in the Data folder of the delivered datasets.

Example, if you are using UK dataset, the default location would be C:\ProgramData\Bentley\OpenBuildings CONNECT Edition\Configuration\Datasets\Dataset_UK\Data.

Centroid values (X, Y) can be added or modified for various section profiles by editing the xml files, using an xml editor or using the StructuralShapesTemplate.xls in the Data folder.

Once the centroid information is included, the placement by centroid method will place the structural members in the respective centroid defined for that profile.

Check this Snapshot:

Hope this helps.

Best regards,

RJ.

RE: [OBD U5] AU dataset - placing member by centroid

Tuan Le — Tue, 06 Aug 2019 06:38:27 GMT

Looking at your snapshot Tathagata, the placement point looks very much like middle,center, not true centroid.

RE: [OBD U5] AU dataset - placing member by centroid

Tuan Le — Tue, 06 Aug 2019 03:08:38 GMT

[quote userid="759132" url="~/products/building/building_analysis___design/f/aecosim-speedikon-forum/183504/obd-u5-au-dataset---placing-member-by-centroid/536531"]works properly for beams of most section libraries across various Datasets[/quote]

That is really intriguing, as I just did a quick test and I see completely opposite.

Test procedure: placing an unequal angle structural member by centroid placement option.

Dataset(s) seems to work properly: US

Dataset(s) doesn't work: AU, DE, NM, NZ

Dataset(s) that have center placement same as centroid placement (which is wrong): CN, DK, ES, FR, IT, SE, SG

UK dataset crashes for me and I haven't got time to do a clean install.

So from my test, there's only US dataset that is working properly, all other datasets either not working for centroid placement, or working wrongly.

RE: [OBD U5] AU dataset - placing member by centroid

Tuan Le — Mon, 05 Aug 2019 23:22:08 GMT

Hi Tathagata,

Can you tell me which default workspace and workset you used for your snapshot? I used the AU dataset and below is what I get:

RE: [OBD U5] AU dataset - placing member by centroid

Tathagata Saha — Mon, 05 Aug 2019 16:08:18 GMT

Hi Tuan,

From whatever we have seen, the place by centroid method works properly for beams of most section libraries across various Datasets.

Can you point out any particular section library where centroidal placement option is not working so that it can be rectified soon?

Regards,

Tathagata