Problems trying to create a datasource in Projectwise Administrator and be able to use Bentley Facilities Space Planner with OpenBuildings

Dear  ,

The problem originates when I try to connect a server (which I create in SQL server) with projectwise administrator, since the connection fails and it does not allow me to create a datasource. Without said datasource I cannot enter projectwise explorer. It is important to mention that I only want to work on my computer and do not want to connect to other computers on this server, also my computer has regional settings other than English, specifically Peru.

Because of this, I am wondering if there is a way to work with Bentley Facilities Space Planner and OpenBuildings but without Projectwise Explorer?

And if it is not possible, I would be grateful if you could provide me with information on the steps to be able to create a server correctly so that it connects with ProjectWise Administrator and be able to generate a datasource to use ProjectWise Explorer with Bentley Facilities Space Planner?

Thanks in advance.

Parents
  • Hello Dennis,

    Unfortunately, but Facilities Space Planner can't work without ProjectWise and OBD or Mstn.

    How to create PW datasource with steps how to register new Server is in this link:
    docs.bentley.com/.../GUID-0A86D606-E051-D19D-39D7-78357783D9DD.html

    Short instruction is:

    on Server machine

    1. Install PW server
    2. Install Explorer and Admin
    3. Make sure PW Integration service is running
    4. Create Database
    5. Create 64bit ODBC connection to it
    6. Open PW Admin and it should automatically show Server> Right click and start new Datasource creation procedure. If it is not in the list then check PW Integration server service. You can try by registering it manually.
    7. Enter DS Name>Select ODBC connection>Enter DB User credentals which will be used to connect with database>Enter PW admin user credentials>Uncheck to create datasource without template> and finish procedure.
    8. DS Created and can be used for Bentley Facilities Space Planner - BFSP.

    BFSP has a default Office data model configuration, which can help while creating and prepearing your own model.

    In order to import this model, you should have installed all Facilities Adminitrator tools, in which you will find Setup and Validation tool. This tool will alow in prepearing datasoure for BFSP and will help to import standard Office space model configuration. You can find information about this tool in below link:

    communities.bentley.com/.../where-is-the-setup-and-validation-tool-in-connect-edition

    We can help you out with whole this procedure of prepearing BFSP environment. Just create a service request. We can arrange live meeting and then we can do all this together. This way we can show you more then how to set it up.  

    Best Regards,
    Kestutis Mitkus

    Application Engineer, Building, Structural & Plant

     

  • Hi Kestutis

    Can you use ProjectWise 365 instead?

    I imagine PW would be too expensive for most OBD users just to get access to the spaceplanning tools.

Reply Children
  • Hi Dominic,

    It depends what exactly your OBD users would like to do.

    We have several posibilities here.

    1. Use PW, OBD and Bentley Facilities to design models on one machine. Then Use special Bentley facilities Export option, which will export models with all data from database about spaces and assets. Then saved model in PW365(PWDrive) can be opened by other OBD designers. Then when BF Model is finished modifying, it can be imported back with all changes.

    2. Use Space functionality in OBD. Then using area fill tool you can create all required spaces. This functionality is different than in Facilities and it saves all data inside the model. Actually whole wokflow is based on Spaces and ItemTypes. Then you can use PW 365(PWDrive) and when model is finished, other designers can see it with all changes and as well work with it. 

    3. Install PW Explorer, OBD and Bentley Facilities for each designer. Bentley Facilities can't work without ProjectWise, because it is saving all information about spaces and assets inside same PW Datasource's database.

    And then after any work done, you can always synchronize your models to iTwinHub and share whole design with required parties where they can check it using Internet Browser.

    Best Regards,
    Kestutis Mitkus

    Application Engineer, Building, Structural & Plant

     

  • Hi Kestutis.

    Thanks for this. I am trying to understand what functionality we would be left with with your Option 2 using the incoming OBD9 spaceplanning tools.

    I think Option 3 is the current 'architecture' for Bentley Facilities, which is quite sophisticated being web-based quite early on and fully integrated with PW which is used to transaction manage dgn files that are checked-in/out with the spaceplanning attribute info, providing support for formating that nongraphic 'BIM' info in a structured manner using classes and relationships.

    The problem is that this is all quite expensive if you have a lot of designers using OBD. I imagine its OK for facilities managers who do not have to design very much and only occasionally need the CAD feedback and optioneering. Even that is probably changing as the competition will inevitable offer a CAD interface as standard... using cheap ACAD clones?

    Option 1 is an interesting half-way house, but I think you would only save some Spaceplanner, PW Explorer licenses? What would be cost of PW server + one explorer + BF? Would this be competitive with dRofus or CodeBook? It would be good to have a discounted price as the users would not really be using PW's file management services. They are forced to use it because BF uses PW's datasource (MySQL?) modelserver functionality to add the nongraphic info to the dgn files... like OpenPlant?

  • Option 2 sounds like you would be losing a lot of the functionality that BF would offer. This would not be acceptable for your FM clients. I suspect it would also not be good enough for large infrastructure operators who would have large CAD teams. But, they probably already have PW as a semi-fixed cost.

    It would be good to understand the limitations of using Item Types versus Items which I presume BF uses.

    1. Generating new Classes: Looking at BF's class editing tools which include tools that I don't see in the Item Types toolset.

    1. Qualifiers
    2. Link Constraints
    3. Methods
    4. Add-on classes
    5. Custom View
    6. Class Attribute Security
    7. Automatic Link Rules

    2. Generating active relationships, links between Class info to CAD components / Cells:

    1. Links to Cell libs
    2. Link to Catalogs, eg Door class will have a catalog of multiple compliant door Cells.

    3. Generating assigning Symbology, Labeling styles to the CAD components / Cells. Some of this could be done using Mstn Element Templates (OpenPlant, OpenRoads, Bentley Map-style) but there is currently no specific interface, tool for this in OBD... yet?

    This is very much 'database' type work and I think we will need similar level of tools, without the need for full-fat PW.

    OBD is pretty un-database-like and almost nothing is linked to anything else (No R*vit-style 'bi-directional' change engine). While this has some benefits, when it comes to handling BIM and FM info, it's definitely a handicap.

    You mentioned synchronising to iTwinHub. I wonder if that could replace PW in future as the repository for FM database? I understand that OpenPlant Data Manager is also moving to iTwins as its repository?

  • It depends what exactly your OBD users would like to do.

    Yes, I think that this is the key question. BF is aimed at facilities management workflows. OBD user workflows are to do with an earlier phase of the lifecycle.

    Yes, in current BIM parlance BF is centred on 6D, and one of the big drivers of BIM deliverables, especially on large projects, but also probably increasing important for small and medium projects in the UK, post Grenfell. See digital thread discussions.

    So, why or how would OBD / BIM users benefit from having better FM tools? Especially, when setting up the FM database is usually done by others. Contractors on site really just want your standard 2d drawings and spec, schedules. 

    For large infrastructure operators, you would be working within an FM system so something like BF would make a lot of sense. Although I have to say I haven't seen BF used any of the big infra operators here in the UK. I wonder why?

    Displaying Assets

    "Assets are not stored in DGNs, but are stored in the database (along with location and attribute information) and then temporarily drawn in the DGNs on request."

    I can see this being the norm for owners, who have to track all the equipment, fittings, people and associated processes within each room. This will be a lot more info that what your highest LOD BIM model would have, given the amount of junk and history that owner has to deal with. I suppose it also forces a data-centric means of approaching BIM.

    Generating this amount of info forces a hierachial approach to modeling, where everything has to be tagged, named ie 'classified' in a structured manner complete with hierarchial 'parent-child' or spatial 'inside, part of' or 'belongs to' etc relationships. This is usually completely missing in CAD models.

    I think that this dual world where an asset say a chair could exist in both a database without geometry and a CAD model as geometry with attached nongraphic data opens a lot of doors. Mstn has always been based around federated models, but has been held back by not having a central database to organise and manage. OBD does not hold the project data centrally, but in the separate dgn files. If you need to schedule all the doors in a project you would need to know which models to Ref attach. Sure, you could try to use a designate imodel but that is read only. Yes, you could roll your own database link... I think Speedikon, AB_DATE's Visionplan does a better job here with info management. BF would help plug a gap here.

  • I like the controlled decoupling between a space or element and its geometry. Useful even for designers.

    1. LOD. Why load a huge file with all those chairs when you can load just the Spaces? Even if with Shared Cells, each of the Cells would have Item info stored in the dgn. You could just have the all the Cell insertion points / transforms stored in the database. Proxy labelling left in the model instead? Select a Space and populate the Space with the geometry / Cells on demand. Don't need the furniture for all the other rooms.

    2. Lots of fast configurators for smart frontend design coming onto the market: Testfit, Hypar, Spacemaker.AI, Finch3d, Higharc etc. These tools are based on sophisticated topological / hierachial / rules processing. The chairs and furniture would be 'self-deploying' and automatically 'decorate' the room. The CAD geometry comes last only for display to the human at the end of the process. This will require extensive classification of all the objects and requirements. Something that BF's FM brief is well placed to support. Probably seeing some of this kind of 'parametric' detailing with rebar and piping design already?

    3. Parametric costing. The type of BOMA, DIN 276/7 areas x unit rate guestimate is pretty old school. Lucky if you get +-15% accuracy. A lot of clients are asking for more detailed takeoffs before full design. Just need number of chairs, light bulbs etc, you can place them correctly in the model later. Actually, I am going to outsource that bit later so don't bother Stuck out tongue winking eye

    4. Item Types at the moment do not support building relationships very well. Especially, cross element or model relationships. This limits their utility, R*vitness?

    5. More classification and spatial relationships mean easier and more productive selection for when you need to modify things when designing.

    6. Groundwork for automatic code checking, iTwins design validation, Solibri-type workflows.