Generic Forms - Walls, Wall Assemblies and DG Walls

RE: Generic Forms - Walls, Wall Assemblies and DG Walls

Eric Milberger — Mon, 17 Mar 2014 17:50:58 GMT

actually with ABD we cant

We created a Wall assembly from Parts

Now note that I can place each part and it creates a note for each part

But when I place an assembly I cannot label the part but only the Assembly Marker

And then I must have a centerline for that to occur. I cannot get a centerline to occur on all assemblies.

I want to use the marker on my Plan and the Part Lavels on the section

And I don't understand what you;ve said above. this DG stuff is so confusing adn time eating.

RE: Generic Forms - Walls, Wall Assemblies and DG Walls

dominic SEAH — Sat, 15 Mar 2014 12:54:42 GMT

bump

Re: Generic Forms - Walls, Wall Assemblies and DG Walls

Damon Aspden — Tue, 10 Aug 2010 02:11:09 GMT

I do agree with you Eric. There is alot of repetition of data going on, especially when you are using compound walls.

Maybe the Parts themselves need to be simplified a bit more and then more data assigned using the DGS?

Seems to me the DG overwrites the width and height factors of the parts nowadays anyways.

Maybe parts need to be turned into palletes like in rendering. It just controls display of items,
And then the Compound walls assembly tool should be intergrated into the DG area.

Then it only becomes 2 places that you need to edit to make a wall in the first place.
If you only want a single part in your wall you just assign a single part in it.
But it will also allow you to combine parts to make a wall type.

Damon

Re: Generic Forms - Walls, Wall Assemblies and DG Walls

Eric Milberger — Fri, 30 Jul 2010 18:32:07 GMT

Exactly - I don't have the time to populate each and every wall. It makes no sense and is in no way automatic as it should be. The infomration I need is already in the part but not available in the Datagroup editor.

I think this gap between parts and DGParts or DGWalls needs to disappear.

Re: Generic Forms - Walls, Wall Assemblies and DG Walls

Tom Danner — Thu, 29 Jul 2010 04:02:04 GMT

Emilberger,

Expanding on the Datagroup information for the wall leaf

does seem to be the only way to add a specification number

and description.

I can associate a custom datagroup to my wall leafs to get additional

information to display in the annotation cell Manager.

However, even though the information is available their isn't any way

to preset the data for the leafs.

In order for my custom wall leafs to contain preset information is for

the wall leafs to show up in the datagroup editor. So far I have been

unable to get wall leafs to populate with any information.

I can however, after placing a compound wall in a drawing go to Datagroup Explorer

to see my compound wall under the "Wall" catalog and the associated wall leafs

under the "Wall Leaf" catalog. The wall leaf data contains the 5 default items plus

my 'blank' custom data items. These custom items can be manually filled in on

a case by case base.

To make a long story short, If I could get the wall leafs to populate in

datagroup catalog editor I could get the additional items to work.

Would be pretty functional to embed specification and keynote info into

to compound wall leafs instead of only the compound parent wall.

Tom

Re: Generic Forms - Walls, Wall Assemblies and DG Walls

Eric Milberger — Sun, 25 Jul 2010 10:34:00 GMT

Here is the other graphic

Re: Generic Forms - Walls, Wall Assemblies and DG Walls

Eric Milberger — Sun, 25 Jul 2010 10:31:12 GMT

herer is the tool for the leaf and you cannot give it a Spec no and Description

I can't use the Wall Tag for a Leaf

And I can't use a Spec Tag for anything

So here are my images

The single DGWall Places with a Tag of "A"

The DGWall Assembly will not place it's Tag of B, though is does place the cell

The Leaf of the wall places the cell you see to the right.
There is no options for text other than the 5 you see
The 4th Option is supposed to be Part Definition??????
I need Spec No. and Spec Description

YA CAN'T DO IT!!!!!!! HELP!!!!

This has taken over two months to get some type of resolution or at least a "It doesn't work right. We will fix it."

Re: Generic Forms - Walls, Wall Assemblies and DG Walls

Eric Milberger — Fri, 23 Jul 2010 22:51:50 GMT

I am going to need somethign to server for description and a part no.

Re: Generic Forms - Walls, Wall Assemblies and DG Walls

Eric Milberger — Fri, 23 Jul 2010 22:50:50 GMT

I walked through it will support and it does not have all the veriable

You cannot add a description or other tags to the Cell. The only options you ahve are Ht, Width and form No (or something else and them something we cannot define.

Re: Generic Forms - Walls, Wall Assemblies and DG Walls

Steve Cocchi — Fri, 23 Jul 2010 18:38:22 GMT

To post? You really shouldn't be sticking leafs in the mailbox. ;-)

Remember that you will need a Wall Leaf DG annotation cell for those. We haven't been able to get the leafs to *not* work in the tests we've done here.

There are a few imags to clean up, but see if this helps: http://communities.bentley.com/products/building/building_analysis___design/w/building_analysis_and_design__wiki/steps-for-creating-a-datagroup-annotation-cell-for-wall-assemblies.aspx

Re: Generic Forms - Walls, Wall Assemblies and DG Walls

Eric Milberger — Fri, 23 Jul 2010 11:26:40 GMT

And I still cannot get the leafs to post correctly

Re: Generic Forms - Walls, Wall Assemblies and DG Walls

Eric Milberger — Wed, 07 Jul 2010 21:20:24 GMT

Steve - thanks but this is not as easy as it appears.

I have a promoted BV that I am drawing my annotation upon. To get this centerline:

I must leave my drawing file of my beautiful hantched Floor Plan
Before I do make sure it is set to syncronize
Go to my master model where by BV's are created
Attache the BV "First Floor Plan"
Demote my "First Floor Plan"
Go back to the external Drawing Plan
Make sure the sync did not mess the plan up
add the Tag for the wall
draw a line associating the tag to the correct wall
Go Back to the Master Model
Attach the BV "First Floor Plan"
Promote the View
Go Back to the external Drawing View
And then start doing my other annotations
IF I FORGOT TO LABEL ONE WALL I redo steps 1-14

What I would like to see is:

While in my Drawing view (External or Internal)
Select the DG Annotate Tool
Select the Wall
Have it default to the last action select
And give the action option in a pull down relative to the element selected
Option for a wall would be "Wall" or "Wall Leaf"
Then Place the correct TAG with a line from the tag to a location on the wall (Similar to the Annotate Tag Tool)

Re: Generic Forms - Walls, Wall Assemblies and DG Walls

Steve Cocchi — Wed, 07 Jul 2010 19:49:13 GMT

Hmmm... I don't really understand what this means - "There is NO centerline for the Uniformat Note".

Attached is an image showing six different wall assemblies, each with a member function line. This is the element to select when placing a wall assembly label.

Edit: Just for clarification, "Member Function Line" is the correct term for this element since it's not really positioned along the center of the assembly.

Re: Generic Forms - Walls, Wall Assemblies and DG Walls

Eric Milberger — Tue, 06 Jul 2010 21:59:21 GMT

Can anyone get annotation to work. It still does not work. There is NO centerline for the Uniformat Note

and the Parts do not give me the Part Description

Re: Generic Forms - Walls, Wall Assemblies and DG Walls

dominic Seah — Sat, 26 Jun 2010 04:42:35 GMT

Steve,

Getting out of the 80's:

Can I suggest that the BA dev team look at B-Processor..... or something like it. B-Processor is an open-source app currently being developed in Denmark. Maybe Bentley could join in? The short presentation and video tutorial links are worth looking at.

B-Processor is designed from the ground up to address a lot of the data-centric problems and aspirations that we would recognise as 'BIM' today. And, it does this from the architect's view, to boot.

In comparison, BA's addition of DGS in 2004, and now the SpacePlanner database seems to be a more fragmented and tentative approach to BIM.

B-Processor provides a more holistic modelling experience, based on a simple way of aggregating building objects around spaces and nested 'Chinese boxes' as a way of handling BIM objects, which intrinsically integrates BIM requirements like building product classification.

A lot of inter-element dependency and propagation functionality is becoming available. PowerCivils has its Civil Geometry, the GIS guys have XML-based feature modelling, the plant guys have OpenPlant etc, and building has GC.

I think GC is great at what it does, but it will need to change a bit before it will be able to do 'BIM modelling'. OTOH, GC's parametric spreadsheet-type propagation is a powerful tool. To participate in BIM modelling, GC features have to function within a BIM data model / data base. Is DGS's xml store really suited to keeping up with and maybe even managing GC features?

GC BIM features seems to be a tool that is 'looking for job' at the moment. I think that the idea is that the GC designer is going to script some walls (because it's too complex to be done manually, presumably) and throw it 'over the wall' to the BA user. But, the moment the wall is modified, the propagation chain is broken (BA has no history mode) and any revisions on the GC side will be pretty problematic. This kind of interoperability disconnect makes GC more trouble than it's worth in most professional situations. Users should be able to script and iterate the GC construct in its 'BIM' context.

Re: Generic Forms - Walls, Wall Assemblies and DG Walls

Eric Milberger — Fri, 25 Jun 2010 04:52:08 GMT

A. The most important is that BA must follow standards for us to work in the world.

For this be compatible with MasterSpec, Uniformat, Sweets, AIA, CSI, Timberline, COBie, IFC, etc.

B. For this we need good Parts List and Good Assemblies

C. It must be quick and easy to use. In other words - be transparent to use and never impose on production.

1. We need a Parts list based upon MasterSpec. We can all share and it is compatable with the industry. It must include the standard place ti write spec anme and description.

2. We need and assembly based upon Uniformat. Only estimators will recognize the assemblies. But Uniformat gathers it's stuff for MasterFormat to begin with.

3. Then we need an automatic way to create a DG Wall from the Assembly without any input except the Instance Data..

This all needs to be brought out of the 1980's and into 2010 with quality and userfriendly dialogs and controls. NO MORE XML SPREADHSEETS. they can be in the background for power user stuff but not for one-to-one work.

THEN IT NEEDS TO WORK. - KEYNOTES, PLAN NOTES, SECTIONS NOTES, RENDERING, PLANS AND SECTIONS THAT LOOK RIGHT, ETC.

This entire peice was started to show there is no direction and you CANNOT even develop a solution with weeks upon weeks of discussionn.

Re: Generic Forms - Walls, Wall Assemblies and DG Walls

Steve Cocchi — Fri, 25 Jun 2010 01:22:25 GMT

Well, as you mentioned below there are really too many items outlined in this thread. Not to mention that the topics continue to morph slightly from post to post, making it difficult to know what the issues actually are.

I would suggest picking whichever issue is the most important, describe that as succintly as possible, and go from there. Because if the ticket submitted to support resembles this thread, I don't think that's going to get very far either!

Re: Generic Forms - Walls, Wall Assemblies and DG Walls

Eric Milberger — Thu, 24 Jun 2010 00:03:52 GMT

Any HELP???? Tech Support does not know.

Re: Generic Forms - Walls, Wall Assemblies and DG Walls

Eric Milberger — Wed, 23 Jun 2010 03:00:16 GMT

The Section does work now - why I don't know.

However as you can see I need better Data - where does this data come from

Attached is the section and you cannot tell where the data goes to and even if it did fill in family

And I need a line to the Data

I also want to ANNOTATE other than walls and Assemblies. What about everything else that does have a part assigned.

Re: Generic Forms - Walls, Wall Assemblies and DG Walls

Eric Milberger — Wed, 23 Jun 2010 02:35:53 GMT

Our walls don't have centerlines since a contractor cannot build by a centerline - he buids by an edge. Many of your parts also don't ahve a centerline.

So is there some switch I need to show a centerline to select.?

Also I cannot find out what some of thsi data refers to?? See Picture 50199??? Compound Parent???

?Part Definition? Could not be 0'-0"

And Wall Function - that is not listed in the Part definition

Re: Generic Forms - Walls, Wall Assemblies and DG Walls

Steve Cocchi — Wed, 23 Jun 2010 02:27:55 GMT

"These Questions were posed to support today and now I am waiting for an answer"

Many of these might qualify as CRs, so in those cases that CR# may be "the answer".

But specifically for # 3, if you select the Wall Assembly "centerline" then you should get the Wall annotation, while selecting any of the leafs should result in the Wall Leaf annotation. I guess this also applies to # 8 since the DG Annotation placement is more or less "context senstive" based on what you're selecting.

Also, regarding # 1 and 9... I'm pretty sure I've placed DG Annotation in sections and elevations before and don't ever recall seeing any problems to speak of. Maybe there's some setting coming into play...

Re: Generic Forms - Walls, Wall Assemblies and DG Walls

Eric Milberger — Wed, 23 Jun 2010 01:50:39 GMT

OK - Too many issues

Datagroup Annotations only works on plans and NOT section
This negates the use of an annotation Leaf Tag as I rarely see a plan annotated beyond a wall Tag but always see sections annotated fully to part
When Placing a Wall Tag it does not show a line to the wall I've just Tagged.
This is confusing in tight situations
I cannot Place a Wall tag on a Wall that is made of multiple parts or leafs. Only a Wall Leaf Tag
So with this I cannot tag my Walls as mine are more presice than a two line wall and I don't want to Leaf Tag my Plans
When a Leaf Tag is used it does not draw a line to the Leaf being drawn
Hard to tell what you are describing without a Line and alot of notes
Do the Datagroup Infomration Tag Variables have any specific meaning or can you use them as you see fit.
I was looking for a "Spec" and "Spec Description Variable"
Can we add our own Variables?
Should we not be able to select our Datagroup Tag???
I might have a Tag for simple descriptions and one more complicated and large data
Should I not:
Select the Place Datagroup Tag Command
Select the Type of Wall Tag - "Wall" or "Leaf"
Then Select the Type of Wall or Leaf Tag as I might have more than one
Should I not be able to tag in any type of file whether Section, Elevation or Plan
How do I Tag something that is just a Part of Piece - (i.e. Coffee Maker)

These Questions were posed to support today and now I am waiting for an answer

Re: Generic Forms - Walls, Wall Assemblies and DG Walls

Eric Milberger — Mon, 21 Jun 2010 09:39:13 GMT

SECONDLY -

Would it not be easier to add a part listing and the assembly

That included these variables so you could edit it in one place

Then a utility that created a DG wall FROM a Assembly without every doing anything but selecting the Assembly.....

Re: Generic Forms - Walls, Wall Assemblies and DG Walls

Eric Milberger — Mon, 21 Jun 2010 09:37:39 GMT

SO I go back

I create 2 parts - when complete I have not defined a part number, name , etc

I then create an assembly from the 2 parts - Called "False Wall"

I then create a DG Wall called "False Wall" and add a Note, name etc.

Then I place the DG Wall called "False Wall"

So far ti only knows its name "False Wall" and a note "Spec 00213" and Wall Type "A"

Now How do I make it lavel the Wall with the Type "A"

And then the two parts - CMU and Gyp Bd. ??????

Definatly not out of the box.....

how do I make

Re: Generic Forms - Walls, Wall Assemblies and DG Walls

Andreas Zieritz — Thu, 17 Jun 2010 11:39:04 GMT

Steve, I understand your frustration and that you need to make priorities. On the other hand we users also need to know how you programmers expect us to do when using software. Documentation is time consuming and not always the best medium for giving information. Some users complain that documentation is too bad, others don't use it at all. (r.t.f.m.)

I still think that we would very much appreciate some good examples from you guys from Bentley. Give us one simple project each month, where you want to show us something ("Project of the month"). Post it on wiki, or a blog - and let the discussions begin.

P.S.: I really like fresh discussions, honestly. I think this is important for the development of the software.