TriForma is locking files...

Mike - It's because Structural and Architecture use addition elements called Forms. Microstation doesn't and therefore cannot understand a Form in order to move it. In Drop Element there is a toggle for Application Elements. That might drop the Form element so you can move it - it does with walls. It would be nice to see some of the parametric features of forms in Microstation solids and some of the push pull stuff in forms.

Tom We didn't find BA that difficult either. The most difficult aspect was the shift in mindset but that would come with any BIM package.

Dominic - I don't have the time or money to test ADT, Catia, or OpenPlant like your good self :) but now that you've asked my favourite feature compared to other packages including sketch up, Max, RVT is Reference Files.... that's the Microstation Reference File system :). Take it as you will.

Danny - When my company looked at moving from Microstation 2D/bit of 3D to BIM a few years back we could see straight away that moving the whole office in one big upgrade was not a viable solution. We chose simply to start with the right people, right projects and the BIM bits we needed, could handle and we grew from there. We started out modelling to a simple level of detail, no compound walls, etc. When we reached the limit of our ability we simply flattened to 2D and went from there. We made our cost savings and justifications early on in projects. Now that we are up to speed we take BIM a lot further. We think we started seeing profit from the switch with our second project when we reduced what would typically be a 7 man team to 5. First project broke even but then again we didn't push it that far.

Stuart - At the time we looked at Revit against Bentley Arcitecture. In fact we tested Revit for some time - yes it had a nice glossy interface but there were some severe limitations, file sizes (opening and saving times and backups running all day), cost of hardware upgrades required to run Revit, lengthy time spent checking in and out files, difficult to manage a large model on a large team, limitations in geomtery, cost of training up staff etc, etc. In the end we continued with Microstation and effectively threw BA over the top so could mix and match both - Revit meant one in all in - no Autocad sharing the same format to fall back on there. Revit's friendly interface and the marketing guff certainly captured our attention but we found a lot of limitations under the hood - we could see nightmare scenarios ahead. The final killer was the bean counters refused to pay for the hardware upgrades required to run Revit. This was a version or 2 back - not sure if that's all changed. We often get asked for Revit files - usually from those who have never used a CAD package. When we find out what they really need our data for a DGN, DWG or IFC works.

Dominic - The ability to mix and match 2D / 3D is in BA. We reference our DV into a 2D model, draw and modify walls in 2D space after Activating the Reference File. We use this for our wall layouts, doors, etc. Its a real time saver and helps those who aren't great in 3D. As a result we have a 3D model created in 2D by a "grey beard" - I like that term.

I hear on the grapevine BA is having an interface makeover - Bentley? True? I've modified our interface to make it easier to use. For a start we got rid of those silly "worm iconed" workflows. Secondly we renamed many of the tools. For example Datagroup Explorer got renamed to Schedules - what is a datagroup explorer?

BA is not perfect but then again nor are the other BIM packages I've tested. You've got to pick the bits you want and get on with it. We haven't completed a manual door schedule since. It would be nice to actually hear from people who deliver a BIM project on deadline day. Some of these posts ......... well ....... um.........

Well said Brian.  Your experience seems to reflect our experience in terms of getting people up to speed.

I agree with reference files being your favourite feature, it is probably mine too.  After using Revit & Autocad (with some Triforma/Microstaiton) on a couple of projects in recent years that was the one core thing that I really missed above everything else.

I hate to reopen this discussion but I only just found it today.  I believe that there is a fairly common problem with 3D models containing TriForma elements when it comes to providing our clients with acceptable deliverables.  The majority of our A/E clients will accept "vanilla" MicroStation .DGN files but they absolutely refuse to accept files that are "locked" due to TriForma or application elements.  I have struggled with macros to drop these special elements but due to nesting and grouping and a host of other issues there are constant problems.  It would definitely be helpful if Bentley would provide an option to export a "vanilla" .DGN file for compatibility with client systems.

If all you need is "plain" graphics, perhaps a DGN > DWG > DGN process might work?

you can tfremove for the client.  And still work in your files

You can tfremove for the client.  Let them make changes and you work in Ustn for that point forward

You can work in Ustn and go as far as working in DWG and work with the client.

It all depends on the workflow that is best for the two (client-Firm)  (Acad- Ustn- Triforma)

It is not easy.  My Engineers are Ustn v8i and Autocad Mechanical

They can only work on extractions I create.

I used to have them created and uploaded to their servers every night to be used as an underlay.

Now I have to manually do this but there is no other way - until they come into BIM and I'll have to make the MEP come into Ustn or find another MEP as there are no ABD MEP here.

you can tfremove for the client.  And still work in your files

You can tfremove for the client.  Let them make changes and you work in Ustn for that point forward

You can work in Ustn and go as far as working in DWG and work with the client.

It all depends on the workflow that is best for the two (client-Firm)  (Acad- Ustn- Triforma)

It is not easy.  My Engineers are Ustn v8i and Autocad Mechanical

They can only work on extractions I create.

I used to have them created and uploaded to their servers every night to be used as an underlay.

Now I have to manually do this but there is no other way - until they come into BIM and I'll have to make the MEP come into Ustn or find another MEP as there are no ABD MEP here.