Hi all
We are migrating from V82004+Triforma to V8I+architecture.
To be short, i have already post some question there is two month and i'was ( and i'm) waiting for bentley's answer. In 2D we don't have many pb. We actually work with V8I in 2D but not yet in 3D because of 2 pb. First, it's printing dynamic view, second it's converting a sheet with DV in a 2d dwg to send to our customers.
i know the workflow in 3D with Architecture. i have read many many articles but nothing on printing. i can make my sheet with DV, annotations.... i see my sheet on my screen but how printing with pen table and exporting.
I wanted to know how people using BA are working, printing, converting. If they synchronise or not DV, or the DV are in "calculate hidden line"??
Thanks for any answer.
PS : In the past i send a message concerning exportation with the "merge visible edge in 3d" option. I have some hidden that dosn't appear when i make a circle hole in a wall (ok in the DV but not in the export). Bentley say that it's a mirostation's bug that has been fix. certainly in the future update...
Hello
Can't go in to too much detail I'm afraid ....... but have you tried exporting the Sheets with DV to flat/merged 2D Microstation dgn files, then exporting/saving those to dwg? This would be an extra step, but might give you more reliable/predictable results with the resulting dwgs. Plus, you could 'clean up' the 2D dgns before you export/save to dwg (if you're pressed for time and need to get the drawings sent off)
Certainly some people are using 3D Microstation and DVs (not that many people are really using it that fully I suspect) to produce 'background' 2D 'views', that you then add additional 2D information to (furniture, symbols), before this is then used to create a Sheet/Drawing.
Also, any Sheets that have a DV using one of the 'shaded' styles (illustration and so on), will normally take a very long time to print (excessive for mainstream production of a lot of drawings IMHO). Though I gather there are big improvements with regards to this aspect of things in SS3
Good luck!
Regards
Danny Cooley
Freelance AEC CAD/BIM Technician Architecture, MEP & Structural ..... (& ex Low Carbon Consultant, ..... because they weren't that bothered!)
OBD Update 10, Windows 10 Pro, HP Z4-G4, 64Gb, Xeon 3.6GHz, Quadro M4000
Hi Danny Cooley
Yes i have try to merge with the "visible edge option" but there is a bug on some hidden line (when i make a circle hole in a form). i'm waiting for bentley for that...
i have read many many articles on DV and Architecture but nothing on printing DV and exporting them!!!
It's why i wanted to have users testimony to know how they work in 3d with BA to print their works and to export their sheet.
PJ
PJ,
Printing Dynamic Views can be tricky and time consuming. I recommend that you create extraction views when you are ready to print to replace the dynamic views. They are guranteed to only show as 2D and the file sizes are much smaller.
Regards,
voa bim
We use the option, "True hidden line" for dynamic views.
We create a Dynamic View, Drawing file only. Go into this model, open the ref dialog, select the DV reference, hit Settings>presentation (from the ref dialog menu) and you'll find a radio button at the top of the dialog settings box. Basically this creates a 2d extraction view of the DV. And when you ref this onto your sheet it views just like a 2D sheet. Makes printing 10 times faster too.
Alternatively don't use DV at all and stick to using DEM. DEM gives way better control on presentation of your model and is heaps faster for viewing, printing working on, in the long run.
Hi voa Bim
I m agree with you. i want to make extraction of my DV (i don't use the DEM because of non calculated cells in V8I!!!).
but how you extract your work ( DV in sheet) in 2D??
Hi Damon
Wath you describe is, i think, the best way for us regarding to how we work. But as i say at the top, there is a bug on some hidden line with the "exact method" (circle hole in a wall unified). but there is avantages on printing faster (with the pen table. they don't works with DV), make pdf... but a little little pb too : some linestyles change because there are hidden (in the DV, i can see a line in style4 for example even if it is hidden but not in the "True hidden line"). Are you using substitution to keep some linestyle on some element even if they are hidden?
Second question. I draw my 3D in a file. I make my DV, and my sheet in another. When i active the "True hidden line", the name of my level have changed. ex: a level "PIPE" is renamed "Name of the file in witch i draw the 3d - PIPE"?. Have you got this pb too and how can i solve that? My pen table don't work because of level have changed.
For the DEM, i know but calcul very long and i have a lot of cells that are not calculated. they work in the V8 2004 + Triforma but not now?? i can't ask me if i place a cell if she is going to be calculate or not.
Thanks for your answer.
Here an example ofa DV in "True hidden line" with the exact method.
In green there is circle hole. and in red you see the hidden line missing. with the rapid metho, this line appear but too bad quality.
Have you got the same pb
I too am really in the testing phase of using BV's.
I am used to using DEM but I am finding I have to completely change my file structure to accomodate BV's. Also the Cad manager hasn't set up any tags so I can't automate things like door/window numbers. room names numbers etc.
Regarding cells, I get the same issues. Basically I have discontinued using bxc cells because they dont show in BV's. Only Doors seem to be immune to this error in BA. Very weird.
Printing doesn't seem to be an issue here as we print by colour with linewieghts, Levels dont really matter. Generally we have the lineweight and colour set to bylevel. I'm not quite sure why you have level issues in printing but it just must be the way you have your printing set up.
My biggest problem is that things like the main elevations just can't be done by "True hidden line". I am finding that sometimes whole parts of the model get missed and wont display. I even get one elevation where if I select this option "true hidden line" I get absolutely nothing displayed. Yet if I leave it as a normal Dynamic view it displays fine, but makes for very slow printing and stupidly huge sheet file sizes. (I have sheet files separate from the model files) Very strange.
Can't wait to get SS3. I have tested my current model in the beta, and it's like way faster processing the DV's.
My current project model is getting up to 180Mb now. When I go into my "Compiled models" (all parts of the building in a single model) it takes about 1-2 mins just to turn on a reference. Makes for slow working. Lukily pressure is off at the moment due to economy slowdown and I have time to play with the settings.
I'm finding i have to be really smart in how I create my plans. I'm now finding I have to create a new model, and reference in just the parts I need to create my DV. If you work all your plans from a compiled model it processes all the references in the file. When your only wanting say LVL03 plan there is no need to process lvl5 or lvl10. It just wastes time. So now I see the benefit of pulling the parts of my model I need to create a DV into a separate file, and create the DV and sheet right there in the plot file. Saves processing time.
I havn't got to exporting 2d drawings yet. We are going to proceed with getting consultants to utilise a 3d BIM approach so hopefully I just export IFC models. I have just sent off my first IFC export to give them something to look at before we launch into the detailed design phase next year.
Good luck :)
Damon
"My biggest problem is that things like the main elevations just can't be done by "True hidden line". I am finding that sometimes whole parts of the model get missed and wont display. I even get one elevation where if I select this option "true hidden line" I get absolutely nothing displayed. Yet if I leave it as a normal Dynamic view it displays fine, but makes for very slow printing and stupidly huge sheet file sizes. (I have sheet files separate from the model files) Very strange."
So when you past in "True hidden line" there is nothing. Have you "play" with the presentation ref ("by parent" + cut, before and after style). If your 3d master is in another file, Look if your level name have have not change ("name of master file -the right level") and look at the reference option (display new level on).
Next year so, for more solution i hope.
Good luck and i tell you when i'll have more info on the way we are going to use DV.
We have experienced similar problems and can't say we have solved them satisfactorily. As Damon mentioned, the larger the file being processed, the more likely it seems you will hit problems. Is it insufficient RAM or is the application just defective? I don't know.
We too have struggled with curved surfaces and therefore have arrived at an office "standard", which I've attached, which avoids curves by faceting. We still encounter problems which take a great deal of perseverance and patience but so far the underlying problem has been elusive.
Also in line with Damon's comments we've taken the view that the "Master model" is not yet feasible on a reasonable sized project and it is sensible to limit the number of references in any one extraction.
I don't have a view on DEM because we have never used it.
Bruce
AECOsim Building Designer beta 3 was released just this week. Hopefully the underlying DV changes will have a positive impact on some of the issues outlined in this thread.
We do curved cuts and surfaces.
Make sure the accuracy is low and sometimes I just have to restart the file
Ustn since 1988SS4 - i7-3.45Ghz-16 Gb-250/1Tb/1Tb-Win8.1-64bEric D. MilbergerArchitect + Master Planner + BIMSenior Master Planner NASA - Marshall Space Flight CenterThe Milberger Architectural Group, llc