Changing Global Origin in models effects??

Good question...   The obvious result is that the Z elevation coordinates for those 30 models should read 300mm greater than they are now.  However, I've never personally looked at how that interacts with the FloorMaster file.  I would try backing up that file, then also changing the GO in the working copy to match up.

Of course, if anyone has first-hand experience in doing this that would be best.   :)

I forwarded this on to a colleague that was just looking at a similar situation a couple weeks ago to get his thoughts on it.  That experience would make him the one that has "first-hand experience".  I think he is on-site this week, but I am hoping he might have an opportunity to chime in.

-travis

Hello

Apologies for the delayed response, I've been out of our solar system for a few days, only just for back. It's a bit of a hush, hush job, ..... can't really discuss the details here in this forum (I'm sure you understand!).

Anyway, back to more earthly matters

'I can certainly see an intuitive nature to some of the concepts described here.  However, comparing a vector based 3D modelling/CAD application to Google Earth seems a little off to me. '

Sorry if you though that was a little 'off'. I wasn't comparing to 2 different software apps per say. I didn't think that was being implied. The point was that locating yourself, and your site/project should be as straight forward as it is in Google Earth. Bentley Systems would seem to already have most/all of the necessary information. If you look in the 'Geographic' toolbar, it's all there. Plus integration/links to Google Earth and GPS capabilities.

It seems unclear to me how you go about 'geo-locating' your project files/models. It seems you can select a geographic coordination system for the file/model, and also apply it to the ref files. Short of ensuring that the project level seed files (there may be several) are geo-coordinated, how go you locate your whole project/site?

There are certainly other' advanced CAD' packages, that have a very straight forward dialog box, where you locate your building. Mainly the energy analysis projects ...... some of which are part of the Bentley portfolio!

You simply fill in the dialog box, this then relates your site to a weather data file and various climate metrics. ..... BIM

Why are the 'building' applications not making use of these capabilities.

Here in the UK, most projects use the OS (Ordnance Survey) Co-ordinate System. When I create some objects in 3D, where then is Z = 0 (Microstation Global Co-ordinates System) relative to the OS System? Is Z = 0 then equal to 'Ordnance Data Level' = 0 (which is sea level in the UK system)

Perhaps a bit of an arcane approach, but here in the UK, everything is related back to sea level (in the OS System), ..... Fortunately here in London, pretty much all of it is only several tens of metres above see level (not hundreds), so most of the time you are dealing with figures around 100 m AOD (Above Ordnance Data)

I've tried on a couple of occasions, developing my models at their real height locations (in the OS System). This is usually not very practical, and will throw a lot of other people out.

More often, I'll pick a level that's a round number just below the lowest point of the site (say it's 84.500, then I would use 80.000) and use the Microstation Z = 0 as that.

The big danger with changing the GO, is if you have a large team, say 20 people, and they are importing/exporting things all the time, ....... there will soon be problems (used the wrong seed file, importing a file from another system, ....)

Relating to the original question about re-locating the GO, ...... ..... one would have hoped that by now we would not have to be concerning ourselves with any GO. Just with locating your site, .... once you have done that, the GO should have then already have been moved to an appropriate location, so that the solids accuracy remains intact, and if you import a 3D elevation file from one of the 3D mapping companies, then your building should already be at more or less the correct height/elevation, ......

Over and out ..... (excuse me for a moment, ..... need to just go and check my hyperdrive unit, ..... seems to be smelling of smoke, ...... not a good sign)

I guess when comparing Google Earth with vector based 3D modeling applications such as MicroStation, I was looking more at the accuracy/precision aspect.  I don't know if Google Earth has a similar concept, but since it's not a design application per se the ability to select a random point holds an entirely different meaning than in MicroStation (and the Parasolid modeling engine), where its floating point math dictates that closer to the design cube center gives better solids modeling accuracy.  From that aspect the modeling coordinates can make a big difference, hence the ability (and need) to change the GO to accomodate real world coordinates.

However... when I commented about some of the concepts outlined in this thread, I was thinking more of the front end for this process.  I certainly can't see a simpler/more streamlined method of assigning coordinates as a bad thing!  But I'm not a developer so I have no idea what this really means from a coding perspective.  Not to mention taking into account the many different workflows our users have, across many disciplines.  

Anyhow...  Good luck with the hyperdrive unit.  Smelling smoke is never a good sign.  You may want to consider one of those liquid nitrogen cold packs.  They work pretty well on ailing hyperdrive units and they're not bad for aching muscles either.  Thitry minutes and you'll forget all about those aches...   ;-)

maybe check out this video:

relevant to our discussion and to everyone's need

I'd like it simple based upon what I need in drawings.

For Plan and Section

Workable Origin (don't care what it is) and draw my building

Then move my global and the floor follow (Now I can show true elevation markers on my Sections and Plans)

Create a new "Global Master Model" which hold my original "Master Model" (Confusing isn't it)

Move this to a global loacation and rotate this "Global Master" to match origin of the Universe -

You pick Federation, Klingon or Romulus Coordinate system as you wish.

Steve, when you say change the GO to accomodate real world coordinates, I am unclear as to what you mean.

I thought moving the GO did NOT move the Solids Working Area or the Design Plane. If this is the case, then moving the GO away from the center of the SWA could generate problems in solid modeling especially if beyond the edges of the SWA... Or I would have to enlarge the SWA but loose some accuracy in the process... confusing as usual with Bentley. I am having this problem right now on a real project and I am looking increasingly at moving the geometry to 0,0,0 rather than use the GO which seems to solve nothing. (my survey is currently 32km away from the 0,0,0 - I have a units setting meters/mm/10000 per mm resolution so the SWA is 420m approx.)

Steve, when you say change the GO to accomodate real world coordinates, I am unclear as to what you mean.

I thought moving the GO did NOT move the Solids Working Area or the Design Plane. If this is the case, then moving the GO away from the center of the SWA could generate problems in solid modeling especially if beyond the edges of the SWA... Or I would have to enlarge the SWA but loose some accuracy in the process... confusing as usual with Bentley. I am having this problem right now on a real project and I am looking increasingly at moving the geometry to 0,0,0 rather than use the GO which seems to solve nothing. (my survey is currently 32km away from the 0,0,0 - I have a units setting meters/mm/10000 per mm resolution so the SWA is 420m approx.)

For me, "moving the GO" simply means assigning specific coordinates to a designated location.   So instead of the SWA center being 0,0,0 it could be something like 20000, 20000, 0.    You would still be modeling within the SWA, but would also see real world coordinates based on the project's location.

Geo-referencing/coordination takes this a step further by aligning coordinates across multiple files/disciplines.  It's certainly not something I work often with myself, but it seems to be the preferred workflow AFAIK.   Further information can be found here:

http://communities.bentley.com/products/microstation/w/microstation_v8i__wiki/geographic-coordinate-systems-fundamentals.aspx

http://communities.bentley.com/products/microstation/w/microstation_v8i__wiki/geo_2d00_coordination-with-microstation.aspx 

http://communities.bentley.com/products/microstation/w/microstation_v8i__wiki/georeferencing.aspx

This section covers the interaction between Geographic Coordinate Units and Model Storage Units so also may be of interest:

http://communities.bentley.com/products/microstation/w/microstation_v8i__wiki/5898.aspx

OK thanks Steve, also i am told there is a mdl "swa.ma" that highlights the SWA, but I haven't got this in either AECOsim or Microstation files... Any chance to get it for download? Cheers.

Please ignore, I found the mdl since posting thanks.

Yes, I totally forgot about that.  It is a good visual indicator.