Best way to manage phased information

Re: Best way to manage phased information

Michael Arens — Fri, 31 May 2013 19:07:15 GMT

Open question: wouldn't it be logical to have all the item sets from the federated models, available in the master/containermodel. Especially when using DVs, and generating drawings from the mastermodel?

Re: Best way to manage phased information

Eric Milberger — Fri, 31 May 2013 12:29:18 GMT

Stuart - I am playing with this and can find I only can adjust the Color. It need for Demo dashed also.

Demo - Dashed Red wt 0

Existing - Blue wt=1 stule as drawn

New as drawn

Re: Best way to manage phased information

Michael Arens — Fri, 31 May 2013 12:12:22 GMT

aha, now that is interesting! thanks for sharing. (wished that Bentley came up with this kind of tutorials...)

Re: Best way to manage phased information

Eric Milberger — Fri, 31 May 2013 11:29:58 GMT

Stuart thanks as this is something I will use in the future.

Apparently my version of ABD does not have that feature.

I can open a copy of MS and it is there just as you have shown.

My home version is a little newer. I'll see if it has this feature.

Re: Best way to manage phased information

Stuart Milne — Fri, 31 May 2013 10:16:25 GMT

The image is a little small but it looks like you've selected Items. You need Item Sets.

Item Sets you create will automatically create Named Groups, and those Named Groups can be referenced elsewhere and their Display Style altered via Presentation the Reference File Dialog box.

Re: Best way to manage phased information

Eric Milberger — Fri, 31 May 2013 09:14:38 GMT

Now - I can't give this up - it is killing me not to figure it out. Puzzle.

I've attached a copy of the help file. First it tells you three ways to get the dialog shown in the help file.

Has symbology and all this wonderful stuff.

Attached you see what I get - but not through the group dialog or Utilities as mentioned in help but through the primary tool bar.

From there I see similarities but NOTHING like in the HELP. Dialog buttons are not there and it is a totally different dialog box.

If I use the keyin from the help file it yields nothing except unrecognized.

There has to be an easier way.

And I would hope it would be something that grows without any input. "Any item in file with Phase Classification Demo" equals red wt-0 and dashed..... I could set these sets up in a dgnlib file and be done with it.

Re: Best way to manage phased information

Eric Milberger — Fri, 31 May 2013 08:38:03 GMT

I am intrigued but after spending the last hour and finding that the HELP file is incomplete and wrong.

I cannot figure this tool out.

The tool cannot be called from the group menu (not there) and cannot be called from utilities (not there)

The dialog looks totally different from the one in the Help file.

I had assumed it would either be like creating a displayset or a selection set.

Just can't get it to work easily. And I tried to get my staff here but our of the other three, these do not recognize , displayset nor itemset nor half of what we discuss on the Board.

this tool though looks promising, is too hidden and too hidden...

Re: Best way to manage phased information

Brenden Roche — Thu, 30 May 2013 22:00:16 GMT

Hi Eric, i don't know if this address your work flow issues but here's what i did.

I drew a column with a family and part coloured white.

I set its status to existing to be demolished.

i created an itemset looking for that status value. and changed the colour to red.

i activated the itemset

i then printed to pdf where symbology was set to as displayed and not as created.

this seemed to work for me

rgds

Brenden

Re: Best way to manage phased information

dominic SEAH — Thu, 30 May 2013 12:47:25 GMT

ABD / Mstn is going past CAD modeling and becoming an 'Information' modeling tool.... in many ways.

Mstn:

1. Level attribute: as a key to symbology i.e. transparency, priority, rendering materials etc. One to one mapping, with some flexibility using overrides and dgnlibs. > Demo_level

2. Element Templates: attribute attached to individual element as key to levels + symbology. Nesting > Demo_Element_Template

3. Tags: attribute attached to individual elements. Sets allow some heirarchal organisation. No immediate link to display system.

4. DB Links: attribute attached to individual elements. No immediate link to display system without vertical.

5. Named Groups: attribute attached to individual elements. Some display control; using Item Sets.

6. Items: Mstn EC schema... i-model transformer-type tool inside Mstn in future?

7. Rendering materials: oppportunity to assign/attach material as a proxy for other information.? Could deal nicely with exceptions or variations by using attachments.

8, Named Expressions?

ABD:

1. Family and Parts: attribute attached to individual element as key to levels + symbology... plus unifier parts, compound cell 2d resymbolisation, centrelines, cut resymbolisation, fill etc.

a. Definition b. symbology c. annotation d. structural data e. quantity reporting f. prices g. specification text h. analytical i. rendering .... Will compound walls be defined in the DGS some day?

2. DataGroup System: attribute attached to individual element as key to application and user defined attributes.

3. IFC/Cobie which uses both DGS + F+P... Could be used to produce i-model with the desired keys for filtering? Export with the Phasing attribute mapped to a level and cut your sections/drawings from the i-model?

4. ...?

Re: Best way to manage phased information

Eric Milberger — Thu, 30 May 2013 11:27:41 GMT

Travis this kind of fits to the other discussion we are having concerning level names..

Do I add more level names - ex. Demo, Exiting, etc.

Or do I Create for Parts Demo-Beam, Existing Bean new Beam

Or do I change the DG for each as needed.

It would seem this should be a policy decision: All options done work one solution that you can ignore does.

I would think the DG version is the correct way to go as it give DEMO, EXISTNG, NEW to all as needed without having to create 3 or 4 versions of virtually the same thing.

If I could tag all elemets as DEMO in Phasing and then in the extraction a Rule for Demo as to what symbology I would change. (Level, style, wt, color) then it would be golden.

I don't know that I need a toggle to ignore as I have reference files for that.

I can do most of this with reference files - the problem ahs been where parts unify or not across reference files.

Re: Best way to manage phased information

Michael Arens — Wed, 29 May 2013 19:56:23 GMT

Has there been some progress on this fasing-status field possibility for better control of drawings? Best Practice?

Re: Best way to manage phased information

T_Wollet — Mon, 26 Nov 2012 23:16:30 GMT

No problem. Also note that these definition files can be overridden at the dataset or project level where you could add additional properties into the definition and have them magically appear in all catalogs with that definition associated with it.

-travis

Re: Best way to manage phased information

Bear — Mon, 26 Nov 2012 21:59:39 GMT

I'll have a look thanks Travis.

Re: Best way to manage phased information

T_Wollet — Mon, 26 Nov 2012 19:55:07 GMT

Bear,

[quote user="Bear"]What are the chances of getting some common AECOsim fileds?[/quote]

Currently there are several definition files that are attached to all Catalogs (ObjectPhasing.xsd, ObjectClassification.xsd, maybe others) that in turn serve as a common AECOsim field. Is this the type of common AECOsim field that you are thinking?

-Travis

Re: Best way to manage phased information

dominic Seah — Mon, 26 Nov 2012 16:12:38 GMT

Yes, it would be good to be able to apply the Structural and Mechanical Rules to elements authored by the other 'disciplines'.

Structural rules can move elements to other levels. I think archie users were reliant on DEM for this.

Mech rules can target the graphics type by edge, centreline, insulation, lining and symbol. This could be a way to provide some basic LOD, if there was an 'suppress display' option.... so that you omit the insulation for example.

Would be good to be able to target hatches/fills, materials and set Display Priority as well.

There seems to a lot of rules that deal with re-symbolising to single/double lines. We should be able to deal with shapes as well. What if we need to show a fill for column sections or beams or slabs in plan?

Further down the line:

It will be good to have some assignment options to link particular Drawing Rules to particular Ref attachments? At the moment, it is primarily based on discipline via DGS or/and F+P, but also criteia or selection sets. What happens if you have a bunch of i-models from different parties, or a combo of i-models and live Ref models?

Should the Drawing Rule engine look at the SV to identify which Models to apply which DR set?

I imagine that you could get a bunch of models in from say Prostructures, and you wouldn't want to recreate a F+P definition from scratch. You would want to filter by IFC or CIS/2 attributes using Criteria Sets for those models when they are referenced, and apply your F+P set to your elements.

Being 'foreign' the Prostructures stuff should be re-symbolised 'once' and the results kept to avoid unnecessary reprocessing. Maybe the only bits that will need unfication with live models will need to be re-symbolised on viewing?

Criteria Sets are interesting. Should the Drawing Rule engine be able to 'mine' elements to differentiate... say... whether an edge is a longitudinal or end edge of a beam? Does it abut something? Or if the edge is part of an internal penetration / reveal? There are drawing conventions that require these edges to be drawn or re-symbolised differently. See Speedikon Viewfilters.

Re: Best way to manage phased information

Bear — Mon, 26 Nov 2012 07:19:03 GMT

In structural we have also used the Status field in the member information, but this has been more at a model level rather than in any drawings. Don't see why this field couldn't have it's use extended in AECOsim.

What are the chances of getting some common AECOsim fileds?

Re: Best way to manage phased information

T_Wollet — Mon, 26 Nov 2012 07:07:09 GMT

[quote user="Thomas Voghera"]Are you saying that it is possible to create a 'rule' in a BV that tells all elements with phasing set to "existing to demolish" NOT to participate in the cut AND be displayed dashed and blue in cut and not displayed at all in front and rear?[/quote]

Not for architectural elements. For Structural elements you can apply a rule to a specific Part(s) for demolition (but not by elements with phasing set to "existing to demolish") that controls the symbology and/or display. For Mechanical elements you could use the criteria option "Results of Saved Query" to find all mechanical components with the phasing property set to "existing to demolish" and apply a rule to display ON/OFF and control the symbology.

-Travis

Re: Best way to manage phased information

Thomas Voghera — Thu, 22 Nov 2012 11:26:46 GMT

[quote user="T_Wollet"]

If you apply a "No Display" Rule to the existing members, I believe it should then process items 'hidden' beyond the existing member.

[/quote]

Are you saying that it is possible to create a 'rule' in a BV that tells all elements with phasing set to "existing to demolish" NOT to participate in the cut AND be displayed dashed and blue in cut and not displayed at all in front and rear?

Re: Best way to manage phased information

T_Wollet — Thu, 22 Nov 2012 03:32:36 GMT

If you apply a "No Display" Rule to the existing members, I believe it should then process items 'hidden' beyond the existing member.

Re: Best way to manage phased information

rklaschka — Tue, 20 Nov 2012 18:36:34 GMT

I think its also important to make the differentiation between management in design and in drawings.

I'm back in three file world. Existing to Remain, Existing to Demolish and Proposed. Its the only way to sensibly manage things in AECOSIM sadly.

I hope someone at the farm is listening for the next go at things, because most of what has been discussed here is work arounds.

I'm also surprised that there doesn't seem to be any acknowledgement from Bentley that it would be a good idea to leverage the attributes in the application. There needs to be a shift away from thinking of AECOSIM as a glorified drafting application.

Re: Best way to manage phased information

Thomas Voghera — Tue, 20 Nov 2012 03:47:47 GMT

[quote user="T_Wollet"]

John,

I would recommend creating a Part for Beams to be demolished that get assigned to a different Level than New beams. This could be assigned by a Catalog Item for Beams called Beams-Demolition (or whatever you want to call it). Then you could create a structural rule that is applied to the Steel::Beam-Demolition Part that either doesn't display it or displays it with a different symbology than new beams.

-Travis

[/quote]

Travis

will the rule take that element away from the cut (so things behind it will be visible in front view.)?

Re: Best way to manage phased information

Shawn Foster — Tue, 20 Nov 2012 01:37:55 GMT

Mine was not intended as a long-term solution, merely a current workaround until the ability to scale and resymbolize with more specificity is put into the product.

Re: Best way to manage phased information

dominic Seah — Tue, 20 Nov 2012 01:28:13 GMT

Thematic mapping is nice, but what happens when you need to export the info to dwg or even dgn for those vanilla Mstn users?

At some point, we need to be able to get DV/BV to re-symbolise to different levels ala DEM.....

Re: Best way to manage phased information

T_Wollet — Tue, 20 Nov 2012 01:18:43 GMT

John,

-Travis

Re: Best way to manage phased information

Shawn Foster — Tue, 20 Nov 2012 00:49:15 GMT

Thematic Mapping from Space Planner works, but as RobK says, you have to change your Display Settings to Wireframe (or anything but Smooth or Transparent) as the TFPart Material settings interfere with the resymbolization...but it does work quite nicely on walls et al.