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Multiple Storage pipe

Hi

According to the following link what if I have 3 storage pipe some thin like the following captured?

Note that, in the manual calculations I indicate the switching on-off table based on "minimum Volume Req for Cycling time=15xQxt", let give you an example:

design flow=0.4 m3/s , minimum cycling time=60sec ----> minimum volume for Cycling time=360 m3 ,

so I will see in the what elevation in the wet well I can get that volume (stored in the pipe and wetwell) then I will indicate the pump on level, but in the SewerGems user will indicate the on-off level without considering to these issues!

Thanks and look forward to hearing from you.

Hamid Akbari

 

https://communities.bentley.com/products/hydraulics___hydrology/w/hydraulics_and_hydrology__wiki/19368.storage-volume-of-wetwell-and-pipe

Parents
  • If the pipe volume is significant, then per the Support Solution article, you may want to consider modeling it as part of the wetwell, by using the "variable volume" type. You could include the volume of all three pipes.

    Even if you decided to model them as conduits (like in your screenshot), the pump on/off elevations would be the same. (the elevations corresponding to the desired volume) If you used the conduit approach, you'd just have to make sure to externally calculate what that elevation would be, based on the pipe and wetwell sizes.


    Regards,

    Jesse Dringoli
    Technical Support Manager, OpenFlows
    Bentley Communities Site Administrator
    Bentley Systems, Inc.

  • 1-could you please let me know how can I define "Cross-Section Curve" field for the all three pipes and wetwell? (just give me an example please)
    2-assume that all pipes have different invert elevations in connection with wet well, it will be so difficult to calculate water stored in the pipes and wetwell when the water level reaches to the specific elevation in the wetwell?(be cause pipes have the slope! )


    Thanks

    Hamid
  • You'll need to calculate this externally from SewerGEMS. For example you could calculate the elevation-volume relationship for the component pieces separately (the three pipes and the wetwell), then add/combine them together for an overall elevation-volume curve.

    If you don't have the equations, you might be able to find something online, for example www.lmnoeng.com/.../InclinedCyl.php


    Regards,

    Jesse Dringoli
    Technical Support Manager, OpenFlows
    Bentley Communities Site Administrator
    Bentley Systems, Inc.

  • I suggest you to add this in the next release, because manually calculations may be have too many errors!
  • Hamid,

    We'll make sure to suggest that to the development team in an enhancement. Perhaps in the meantime you can make a spreadsheet that can do the calculations for you so you can reduce the manual calculations. It also looks like the link that Jesse provided you has a tool on the website that should help with this.

    Regards,
    Mark

    Mark

Reply
  • Hamid,

    We'll make sure to suggest that to the development team in an enhancement. Perhaps in the meantime you can make a spreadsheet that can do the calculations for you so you can reduce the manual calculations. It also looks like the link that Jesse provided you has a tool on the website that should help with this.

    Regards,
    Mark

    Mark

Children
  • Actually this is the only choice that I have now, But because SeweGems needs to user enter On-Off level(and I don't know why it doesn't calculate itself) ,so,
    I have to write a macro into excel to calculate the volume provided into the pipes with interval 100mm to see in which elevation I can get the minimum volume for the cycling time!
  • Hamid,

    If you would be kind enough to share your spreadsheet after you do that maybe it will help out another user who might find themselves in a similar situation until a tool is developed for SewerGEMS.

    Regards,
    Mark

    Mark

  • Sure I 'll do it, please ask to developer include the following into the pump stations :
    -minimum cycling time
    -minimum volume required in the cycling time
    -minimum level required for Level on/off (and users can increase if they want)
    -create a field for the design flow into the pump definition

    Regards

    Hamid
  • Hamid,

    Since these are not requests that I've seen before, it is possible that other engineers in this situation use a different approach. Can you estimate the pump on/off elevations (for modeling purposes) without having to calculate volumes of the wetwell and storage pipes? Wouldn't the actual system operate based on wetwell level/HGL? The modeler typically has this information which is why SewerGEMS has fields for pump on and off elevation.

    If this is a new system that is being designed, you could estimate the control elevations, run the model, analyze the results (including cycle times), then adjust the controls from there.

    If this does not help, please provide a bit more details on the features you requested above and exactly how you envision that they would work.


    Regards,

    Jesse Dringoli
    Technical Support Manager, OpenFlows
    Bentley Communities Site Administrator
    Bentley Systems, Inc.

  • Hi Jesse
    I am just following the HEC-24 for stormwater pump station with storage pipe design.
    let tell you the steps to calculate the on/off level:
    1-you have the minimum cycling time=10 min and design flow =0.2 cms, so the minimum volume in the cycling time is V= 15 x Q x t = 30m3
    2-wet well section area is 20 m3
    3- the pump needs to evacuate at least 30m3, you should find out in which level wet well and storage pipe can provide 30m3 which is depends on storage pipe slope and number of storage pipe.

    the condition can be complicated if the number of pumps operating change or the pipes slope change.
    e.g. if two or three pumps works as parallel and imagine that you want to compare the parallel scenario with the scenario that each pipe discharges separately , it takes couple of weeks if you do it manually and SewerGems can't work you at all.

    Thanks

    Hamid