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Drawbacks of Using Damping Limit?

I have a model with a large number of control valves and pumps, and solving steady state simulations take a varying amount of trials. For instance, one scenario solved SS in ~25 trials, but after a minor-yet-significant modification to the network (added one short pipe to connect two regions within a zone) the solver requires over 2000 trials to resolve steady state. The Intra-Trial status messages indicated that the many valves were being toggled between Active/Opened/Closed repeatedly. After adding a damping limit of 0.01, per recommendation for a solver accuracy of 0.001, the solution is arrived at much more quickly (close to 25 trials). Bentley guidance typically explains damping as limiting flow changes to no more than 60% of the non-damped flow change. 

Since I expect to see notable flow differences due to network modifications, is it possible that add damping would change the solution? Is it worth validating a "damped solution" with a follow-up trial that does not use damping? Any comments on the impact of damping and solutions with many control valves would be appreciated.

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  • Hello Andrew,

    Some of my other colleagues may be able to help you better with specifics on the damping limit (I will "nudge" them about this), but in my opinion it would indeed make sense to more closely examine the results of the model when a change to the advanced calculation options (such as the damping limit) are required. The fact that you are seeing many valves oscillating status in a particularly challenging timestep is an indication that their configuration should be checked as well, to ensure that they are correct and not accidently "fighting against each other" due to the assumed settings. Data checking is the first thing suggested in our general troubleshooting article on "network unbalanced". You might be able to adjust the configuration of those valves (in some cases with a conservative assumption) to make the model more simple and stable. In other words, try to address the root of the problem instead of tweaking the options to get it to work. This should be better in the long run if you can identify (with help from the intra-trial status messages) some changes that stabilize the model.

    For example this article talks about challenges like this that can occur with PRVs in parallel.

    Related article on advanced calculation options:

    http://communities.bentley.com/products/hydraulics___hydrology/w/hydraulics_and_hydrology__wiki/5110.engine-compability-modes-and-calculation-options

    Of course in some cases you may need to adjust the calculation options, in which case it does make sense to be extra cautious.


    Regards,

    Jesse Dringoli
    Technical Support Manager, OpenFlows
    Bentley Communities Site Administrator
    Bentley Systems, Inc.

Reply
  • Hello Andrew,

    Some of my other colleagues may be able to help you better with specifics on the damping limit (I will "nudge" them about this), but in my opinion it would indeed make sense to more closely examine the results of the model when a change to the advanced calculation options (such as the damping limit) are required. The fact that you are seeing many valves oscillating status in a particularly challenging timestep is an indication that their configuration should be checked as well, to ensure that they are correct and not accidently "fighting against each other" due to the assumed settings. Data checking is the first thing suggested in our general troubleshooting article on "network unbalanced". You might be able to adjust the configuration of those valves (in some cases with a conservative assumption) to make the model more simple and stable. In other words, try to address the root of the problem instead of tweaking the options to get it to work. This should be better in the long run if you can identify (with help from the intra-trial status messages) some changes that stabilize the model.

    For example this article talks about challenges like this that can occur with PRVs in parallel.

    Related article on advanced calculation options:

    http://communities.bentley.com/products/hydraulics___hydrology/w/hydraulics_and_hydrology__wiki/5110.engine-compability-modes-and-calculation-options

    Of course in some cases you may need to adjust the calculation options, in which case it does make sense to be extra cautious.


    Regards,

    Jesse Dringoli
    Technical Support Manager, OpenFlows
    Bentley Communities Site Administrator
    Bentley Systems, Inc.

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