Powerdraft problems with windows 10

I have changed my OS to windows 10 but unfortunately I got back same graphic problems I had when I installed powerdraft, the drawings are all jammed together. Would appreciate any suggestions. Sorry I know WINDOWS 10 is new but I believe Bentley has been preparing its launch for sometime.

Parents
  • Hi,

    as was discussed in another discussion you participated in, if you use Nvidia, the problems are caused by confirmed bug in particular Nvidia driver versions. So there is no way how Bentley can solve it ... of course it's probably possible to try to implement own workaround, but why, if other cards (AMD, Intel...) and other Nvidia drivers work without any problem?

    MicroStation PowerDraft is not certifid for Windows 10, so it's your responsibility and risk to install it. And after the mentioned problems appeared, did you try proposed workrounds? ... I guess to try another driver version may not work with Windows 10, but to set configuration variable should help.

    With regards,

    Jan
  • There have also been some issues in the past with certain Nvidia drivers and DirectX 11. Windows 10 uses DirectX 12, are you sure your card is capable or running with Driect X12?

    You can try forcing MicroStation to use the older DirectX 9 interface by setting a MicroStation configuration variable as it has been mention previously. Setting QV_D3DVERSION to a value of 9 (in the environment variables of Windows) will force MicroStation to use the DirectX 9 interface.

    This would simply be a workaround suggested for running PowerDraft on a uncertified platform at this time



  • Hello

    Of course I did search this forum and internet for QV_D3DVERSION = 9. I wouldn't spend my time to write to this thread if I could find the information.
    Bing gives 17! search results, where most are from Bentley pages and some in search results from non Bentley sites written in German, Russian and in some asian language.
    Google gives also the same 17search results.

    So yes, I did search before writing here.

    I know that the problem is with nVidia drivers.
    And I also understand, that if nVidia is not doing anything, then Bentley could do a workaround.
    But Bentley does not want to do that.

    However Bentley has been collecting select subscription fee every year but i have not seen a product updates for almost 2 years... the bugs what were 2 years ago still exist, so I think I have the right to be upset.

    And back to the topic:

    Here is one workaround what worked for me (thanks to the Bentley support for their help):
    If no update or going to the older version of video driver has not worked, then
    go to Control Panel\All Control Panel Items\System\Advanced System Settings, click on Environment Variables button, then under Environment Variables click on the button New... and then type on Variable name "QV_D3DVERSION" and under Variable value "9", then click ok. in Environment Variables click again ok, then in System Properties dialog click Apply (if it's activate - somehow it wasn't in my case) and then ok.
    After that restart Microstation or Powerdraft. Worked in my case - Windows 10, NVIDIA NVS 3100M graphic card.

    Hope that helps someone as it helped me.

    Andres
  • Hi Andres,

    Unknown said:
    And I also understand, that if nVidia is not doing anything, then Bentley could do a workaround. But Bentley does not want to do that.

    With all respect, you don't know what you are talking about. DirectX is seriously complex low-level API, partially because natural complexity of 3D graphics, but unfortunately also because some (in my opinion) not good decisions done during DirectX API design (specifically Direct3D in this case) in the past. I "touched" this API only little in the past and I have to say I am happy I don't have to develop high performance 3D engines ;-)

    So to "do a workaround" probably requires a huge amount of work including testing that nothing else has been broken and all other variants (card types, driver versions) work fine. I don't know details how MicroStation DirectX engine is implemented, but based on blogs and articles from game engine developers I don't believe an acceptable ratio between cost and benefit exists. Especially if it's problem of some specific driver versions, not e.g. graphic processor used in some card series. And it would end with situation described by some driver developer (don't remember he was from AMD or Nvidia) that for some driver versions more than a half (!) of development were only workarounds for popular (and so imporant) games and other applications with wrongly implemented DirectX API ... which again demonstrates it's not well designed API :-(

    Let's imagine a situation you will produce motors for cars and very bad petrol is sold in some area, so a bunch of problems with your motors exist there. Will you change software in control unit and implement changes how the motor is constructed and produces and will go into risk you break something in well designed complex engine and perfectly tuned assembly line? Of course with the risk new problems will apear in areas with good standard petrol? Or you will require only clean correctly produced petrol has to be used?

    Unknown said:
    However Bentley has been collecting select subscription fee every year but i have not seen a product updates for almost 2 years... the bugs what were 2 years ago still exist, so I think I have the right to be upset.

    If there no upgrade for almost 2 years, it's reason to be upset. If there are bugs in Bentley code, reported but not solved, it's the reason to be upset. I agree with you. But in this specific case, you should be upset about Nvidia, because they know about this problem for long time, but it seems potentially thousands of their (Nvidia) users are not valuable enough to release correct driver.

    With regards,

      Jan

    Answer Verified By: J.Haizel 

  • Unknown said:
    But Bentley does not want to do that.

    QV_D3DVERSION is the implemented workaround. There is no other reason why this variable exists than to force MicroStation (or PowerDraft) to use older version of DirectX API (9 instead of 11 in this case) if any problems are experienced with DirectX 11. So what do you want more?

    Regards,

      Jan

    Answer Verified By: J.Haizel 

  • Thank you ladies and gentlement. I managed to upset few people but the debate my question has generated is encouraging. I love you guys. This site is better than any social media out there. Lets get this going. Few times I don't find answers on this site but I believe it does help Bentley development team to dig deep. The upgrades are eventually addressing some of the difficult questions I have had in the past.
    Thank you once again for all the contributions.
  • Jan

    I'm having problems with Powerdraft (08.11.09.829 SS4) on Windows 10 - graphics are completely jumbled.  According to Bentley download link this is Windows 10 compliant.  Version 08.11.09.459 SS3 does the same.

    Power Rail Track (08.11.09.845 SS4) does the same - not Windows 10 compliant.

    On another similar(?) machine PRT works fine.

    Could you please expand on your comment "QV_D3DVERSION is the implemented workaround".  How do I access and set this variable?

    Desperately need advise on this one.

    Regards 

    Neville du Plessis

    Rail Design

Reply
  • Jan

    I'm having problems with Powerdraft (08.11.09.829 SS4) on Windows 10 - graphics are completely jumbled.  According to Bentley download link this is Windows 10 compliant.  Version 08.11.09.459 SS3 does the same.

    Power Rail Track (08.11.09.845 SS4) does the same - not Windows 10 compliant.

    On another similar(?) machine PRT works fine.

    Could you please expand on your comment "QV_D3DVERSION is the implemented workaround".  How do I access and set this variable?

    Desperately need advise on this one.

    Regards 

    Neville du Plessis

    Rail Design

Children
  • Jan
    I have found your earlier posts re: QV_D3DVERSION. Will try that.
    Thanks

    Neville du Plessis

    Rail Design

  • Hi Neville,

    Unknown said:
    I have found your earlier posts re: QV_D3DVERSION. Will try that.

    You should be aware this variable is the workaround only, not the solution and as such is not supported by Bentley for production use (but many users use it every day ;-)

    The solution recommended by Bentley is to upgrade Nvidia drive to the latest one and to check if it works fine and if not, to downgrade to the latest version that worked fine in the past.

    With regards,

      Jan

  • The problem is that the Windows 10 update forcefully updates your graphics drivers. The newer drivers are the ones causing the problem. Updating drivers won't solve anything. The older drivers, that used to work, simply can't be installed on Win10. The official recommendation is pure waste of time in the case of an upgrade to WIn10.

    http://communities.bentley.com/products/microstation/f/273/p/117684/362239#362239

    http://communities.bentley.com/products/microstation/f/273/p/118467/365109#365109

    The problem has existed for years, so don't hold your breath for NVidia to fix the problem.

    The QV_D3DVERSION=9 is the only way to go if you want to keep using MicroStation V8i with the same graphics card on Windows 10.

    If you ever upgrade to MicroStation CONNECT on that system, you'll need to set QV_DISABLE_D3D11=1 or you'll have the same problem again.

  • Jan / Koert

    Thank you for the assistance.  Your comments have been very helpful.

    I placed the following variable in the Personal.ucf (this is for Powerdraft CONNECT) and it solved the problem:

    QV_DISABLE_D3D11 = 1

    So Powerdraft is now happily running on DirectX 9

    The machine has the NVIDIA drivers;    3D Vision Driver 341.95,   Graphics Driver 341.95

    On another similar machine with the NVIDIA Graphics Driver 353.3 all is fine using DirectX 11.  I will try to upgrade the above driver to 353.3 as well, and see what happens.

    Koert, my only question is; for Power Rail Track SS2 and SS4 (i.e. pre-CONNECT) where should I put the QV_D3DVERSION=9 variable?  For the above Powerdraft CONNECT I placed it in the Standards.cfg but it made no difference.  PD still insisted on using DirectX 11.

    Regards

    Neville du Plessis

    Rail Design

  • Hi neville,

    Unknown said:
    for Power Rail Track SS2 and SS4 (i.e. pre-CONNECT) where should I put the QV_D3DVERSION=9 variable?

    Standards.cfg shoud be fine to place QV_D3DVERSION variable definition. The workspace structure and some file names are different in V8i and CONNECT Edition, so

    Alternatively you can also define this variable in Windows, not in workspace configuration, so it will be used by all installed V8i products.

    With regards,

      Jan