Tool to create centerlines piperuns

RE: Tool to create centerlines piperuns

helgeh — Mon, 30 May 2016 10:01:45 GMT

Thank you for the information Jan. Its good to know it can be done, but as you said might require more effort to get the torus part working.
Regards
Helge

RE: Tool to create centerlines piperuns

Jan Šlegr — Wed, 25 May 2016 07:02:11 GMT

Hi helgeh,

[quote user="helgeh"]would IT be possible to create someting that van extract centerlines from plain cylinder and toruses that are connected together ( such AS a pipe run etc)[/quote]

Without studying former discussion, if talking about mentioned cylinder and torus, it would be possible. The main issue, that defines how complex such utility would be and if VBA can be used or C/C++ is required, is what element types are used to create pipes.

E.g. for the cylinder the code is quite simple, because all required data are available through VBA API:

' Go through active model and create centerlines of all cones
Public Sub CreateCenterlinesFromCones()
    Dim esc As New ElementScanCriteria
    esc.ExcludeAllTypes
    esc.IncludeType msdElementTypeCone
    
    Dim ee As ElementEnumerator
    Set ee = ActiveModelReference.Scan(esc)
    
    ProcessElementEnumerator ee
End Sub

Private Sub ProcessElementEnumerator(ee As ElementEnumerator)
    Do While ee.MoveNext
        ExtractCenterlineFromCone ee.Current.AsConeElement
    Loop
End Sub

Private Sub ExtractCenterlineFromCone(cone As ConeElement)
    Dim vertices(1 To 2) As Point3d
    vertices(1) = cone.BaseCenterPoint
    vertices(2) = cone.TopCenterPoint
    
    Dim centerline As LineElement
    Set centerline = CreateLineElement1(Nothing, vertices)
    
    ActiveModelReference.AddElement centerline
End Sub

But for the torus, which for a user is quite similar object, the situation is very different, because the torus is not "torus object", but general solid. It's necessary to go inside the object, to find a proper geometry and to analyse how the centerline should be. Without any testing I assume it can still done using VBA, but the code will be more complex.

The same analysis has to be done for every object (solid, smart solid etc.) that will be used to create the pipe.

With regards,

Jan

RE: Tool to create centerlines piperuns

helgeh — Tue, 24 May 2016 16:56:55 GMT

Hi. If we forget about mesh primitives, would IT be possible to create someting that van extract centerlines from plain cylinder and toruses that are connected together ( such AS a pipe run etc)

RE: Tool to create centerlines piperuns

helgeh — Mon, 29 Feb 2016 05:35:04 GMT

Hi Jon,

helgeh
Does that mean its not possible to extract anything from this dgn file

All I can find in your file are shapes. Each pipe, for example, is made up of multiple unconnected shapes that form a facsimile of a pipe.

helgeh
Yes, this is after i did this, as suggested by Pascal: 1) Drop mesh elements to shapes using the "Drop Element" tool.

helgeh
What is the requirements for the pipe extraction tool to work

I can't see any points. Perhaps Descartes can see more than I with plain old MicroStation.

helgeh
I was not aloved to attache the POD file for some reason, so i attaced the txt file wich can be used to create a POD file. See point 6) in Pascals suggestion list.

helgeh
Would i need some points also between the 2 ends of a single cylinder?

The problem is that they are not cylinders: just a collection of shapes that look like a cylinder.

Okay. My remaining unanswered question was if there are any way to extract enough points to make this work. Im guessing i also would need points wraped around the surfaces with some minimum density ( to make it look like a pointcloud of a pipe ) to make this pipe extraction tool in descartes work.

Regards
Helge

RE: Tool to create centerlines piperuns

Jon Summers — Thu, 25 Feb 2016 16:43:23 GMT

[quote user="helgeh"]Does that mean its not possible to extract anything from this dgn file[/quote]

All I can find in your file are shapes. Each pipe, for example, is made up of multiple unconnected shapes that form a facsimile of a pipe.

[quote user="helgeh"]What is the requirements for the pipe extraction tool to work[/quote]

I can't see any points. Perhaps Descartes can see more than I with plain old MicroStation.

[quote user="helgeh"]Would i need some points also between the 2 ends of a single cylinder?[/quote]

The problem is that they are not cylinders: just a collection of shapes that look like a cylinder.

RE: Tool to create centerlines piperuns

helgeh — Thu, 25 Feb 2016 16:08:48 GMT

Hi Pascal.
Okay. Does that mean its not possible to extract anything from this dgn file, or do i need to change some setting to extract more points. What is the requirements for the pipe extraction tool to work, would i need some points also between the 2 ends of a single cylinder, or just higher density of points at the 2 ends?

RE: Tool to create centerlines piperuns

Pascal Cloutier — Thu, 25 Feb 2016 14:28:20 GMT

I looked at your data, unfortunately, there is not enough points for the tool to find the cylinders.

Pascal

RE: Tool to create centerlines piperuns

helgeh — Wed, 24 Feb 2016 21:30:29 GMT

And here is the txt file

communities.bentley.com/.../1440.prikkerfratrapp.txt

RE: Tool to create centerlines piperuns

helgeh — Wed, 24 Feb 2016 21:28:54 GMT

Hi Pascal,

Thank you very much for the tip. I think I was able to follow the steps, but do have some problems extracting the centerlines (7). First of all I have not used Descartes much so I might be using some wrong settings on the "fit cylinder" tool as I was not able to extract much from the few points in the POD file. I see i have only outer diameter end points in the POD i created, is that enough points to be able to extract the centerlines? ( or solids with bends ) Are there any other settings that can create points everywhere on the surface maybe?

I might have attached the file i was trying to extract if you want to have a look ( if i have done this correctly)

communities.bentley.com/.../99_2D00_stair_2D00_01.dgn

RE: Tool to create centerlines piperuns

Pascal Cloutier — Wed, 24 Feb 2016 13:55:09 GMT

Since you are using Descartes, you could try the following:

1) Drop mesh elements to shapes using the "Drop Element" tool.
2) Select the shapes.
3) Use the "Extract Points from Curve" tool to extract points from the shapes with following settings:
-Location(s) Input By = Node Points
-Compute Following Attributes = Points
4) Use data cleanup utility to delete duplicate points at each vertex.
5) Use the "Export Coordinates" tool to create a text file containing the point's coordinates.
6) convert the text file to POD.
7) Use Descartes' "Fit Cylinder" tool to extract the centerline of your pipes.

HTH,
Pascal

RE: Tool to create centerlines piperuns

helgeh — Wed, 24 Feb 2016 11:10:18 GMT

[quote user="Jon Summers"]

helgeh

The most problematic ones are those who translates in to mesh objects...

You've just raised the complexity of the task by an order of magnitude!

[/quote]Ha ha, that might be correct. I thought i would metion the worst exsample i could think of. It should be said that the "pipes" always comes in as single primitives/parts. So its not one big mesh but one bend becomes one mesh object etc.

RE: Tool to create centerlines piperuns

Jon Summers — Wed, 24 Feb 2016 10:21:10 GMT

[quote user="helgeh"]The most problematic ones are those who translates in to mesh objects...[/quote]

You've just raised the complexity of the task by an order of magnitude!

RE: Tool to create centerlines piperuns

helgeh — Wed, 24 Feb 2016 09:04:09 GMT

[quote user="Jon Summers"]

helgeh

...always get these cad models coming from different cad softwares...

Can you provide a couple of small DGN files, from different sources, that illustrate the sort of pipe runs you want to analyse?

[/quote]Yes, but need a day or two to find the time to do that. The most problematic ones are those who translates in to mesh objects. Idealy i would need to recreate them as solids ( for my use ), and to do that i could use the centerlines (smartlines) and just extrude them with the correct diameters.

RE: Tool to create centerlines piperuns

Jon Summers — Wed, 24 Feb 2016 08:40:17 GMT

[quote user="helgeh"]...always get these cad models coming from different cad softwares...[/quote]

Can you provide a couple of small DGN files, from different sources, that illustrate the sort of pipe runs you want to analyse?

RE: Tool to create centerlines piperuns

Dervalcanny — Wed, 24 Feb 2016 08:17:59 GMT

Hello,
There is a programming forum where MDL creation is discussed that may help:
communities.bentley.com/.../microstation_programming
It may also be worth posting your query on the Plant forum to see if this functionality exists:
communities.bentley.com/.../design___engineering
Regards
Derval Canny.

RE: Tool to create centerlines piperuns

helgeh — Wed, 24 Feb 2016 07:25:17 GMT

Hi,
Yes i am. Microstation with descares on top. I have thought about it, but dont realy know if that kind of tools are in forexsamle openplant eighter. The thing is am not drawving the pipes from scratch, but more or less always get these cad models coming from different cad softwares ( pdms, naviswrks fbx etc. ) that i need to modify in different was.

RE: Tool to create centerlines piperuns

Jon Summers — Wed, 24 Feb 2016 07:01:13 GMT

[quote user="helgeh"] I see a lot of potential for such a tool...[/quote]

Are you using plain old MicroStation? Have you considered one of the plant design apps.?

RE: Tool to create centerlines piperuns

helgeh — Wed, 24 Feb 2016 04:39:18 GMT

Okay, i just thought i would ask as i could not find anything after looking for a while. But i realy think thats a pitty as i see alot of potensial for such a tool. i guess the only realistic option would be to get a programer to create me such a tool.

RE: Tool to create centerlines piperuns

DavidG — Tue, 23 Feb 2016 21:20:58 GMT

Not that I'm aware of. I'd be using it if I knew it was there.