Multiple Annotation Scales

You may need to supply a bit more info on what you are looking for. You can create multiple textstyles and use these. You can also attach references at certain detail scales. But to answer the question you asked - you cannot have multiple annotation scales in one model.

Unknown said:

You may need to supply a bit more info on what you are looking for. You can create multiple textstyles and use these. You can also attach references at certain detail scales. But to answer the question you asked - you cannot have multiple annotation scales in one model.

Does that  also follow with sheet models too,  I had not noticed because I dimension and add text to detailing in the  sheet model not the  model space so my refs and  saved views dont  have text and dims persay...

Unknown said:

We are evaluating the request of displaying annotations at multiple scales in model & also displaying annotations in reference at different scales. This might be considered for future Microstation Release.

Currently Microstation have one annotation scale per model. All annotations in the model will follow that scale. But there is a keyin(Annotationscale change <value>) which allows you to assign any scale other than model’s annotation scale. So with this, you can have certain annotations at any specific scale & other follow model’s annotation scale but individual annotation will have only one scale.  Please see attached video.

(Please visit the site to view this video)

sorry video doesnt run for me  in Chrome  or  in windows internet explorer 11 even... fyi windows 7 

Can you post a video for download so I can use  various video players to view...

stuartw said:

Lorys

. so annotation scale then is crap.. no wonder so few use it... we are better of using the  old mdl Scale Manager from AskInga or  just do all dims and text in true sizes  in the  sheet model as the active  file  with refs attached at scales required...

Couldn't agree more. I have never understood AS. Have tried it a few times but never got it to work.  Way too complicated.

All my text and dims go in the sheet model. You can't get easier than that. 

Unknown said:

Can you post a video for download so I can use  various video players to view...

Video download link

ok its  not crap it just doesnt live up to expectation and  I believe was an attempt to mimic or provide equal  feature that autocad does with view ports   autoscaling the text ..

A drawing sheet  drafting  practice , dare I say  world wide  required that all annotations and dimensions  be th same size on drawings including  details and views at different scales, annotation scale should have  allowed  ref attachments to use the annotation scale to correct the  source text to  end up the right size ...Bentley now tells us this isnt the way it works... so anything else is a work around...

So we do all the text and dims in the sheet model instead not ideal but it works,  unless we do as your video does make  multiple models but that creates nested  ref files which have their own issues with updating symbology.. another  topic for a different  post..

So to cut it short and return to the  original posters need  use Scale Manager ( lookin ask inga) and  forget using annotation scale when you know you'll need  multi view ports type  views,  if all one scale then yes use annotation scale all you want...

Unknown said:

ok its  not crap it just doesnt live up to expectation and  I believe was an attempt to mimic or provide equal  feature that autocad does with view ports   autoscaling the text ..

A drawing sheet  drafting  practice , dare I say  world wide  required that all annotations and dimensions  be the same size on drawings including  details and views at different scales, annotation scale should have  allowed  ref attachments to use the annotation scale to correct the  source text to  end up the right size ...Bentley now tells us this isn't the way it works... so anything else is a work around...

*snip*

Then I must be doing it wrong because that's exactly how I think I'm using Annotation Scale. All annotations the same size regardless of scale of the detail.

Including a mini dgn.

AS-test.dgn

If you want your annotations on the references to maintain the same "relative size" you'll need to switch off Use Active Annotation Scale for that attachment in the Reference dialog.

Unknown said:

ok its  not crap it just doesnt live up to expectation and  I believe was an attempt to mimic or provide equal  feature that autocad does with view ports   autoscaling the text ..

A drawing sheet  drafting  practice , dare I say  world wide  required that all annotations and dimensions  be the same size on drawings including  details and views at different scales, annotation scale should have  allowed  ref attachments to use the annotation scale to correct the  source text to  end up the right size ...Bentley now tells us this isn't the way it works... so anything else is a work around...

*snip*

Then I must be doing it wrong because that's exactly how I think I'm using Annotation Scale. All annotations the same size regardless of scale of the detail.

Including a mini dgn.

AS-test.dgn

If you want your annotations on the references to maintain the same "relative size" you'll need to switch off Use Active Annotation Scale for that attachment in the Reference dialog.

Unknown said:

Lorys

ok its  not crap it just doesnt live up to expectation and  I believe was an attempt to mimic or provide equal  feature that autocad does with view ports   autoscaling the text ..

A drawing sheet  drafting  practice , dare I say  world wide  required that all annotations and dimensions  be the same size on drawings including  details and views at different scales, annotation scale should have  allowed  ref attachments to use the annotation scale to correct the  source text to  end up the right size ...Bentley now tells us this isn't the way it works... so anything else is a work around...

*snip*

Then I must be doing it wrong because that's exactly how I think I'm using Annotation Scale. All annotations the same size regardless of scale of the detail.

Including a mini dgn.

(Please visit the site to view this file)

If you want your annotations on the references to maintain the same "relative size" you'll need to switch off Use Active Annotation Scale for that attachment in the Reference dialog.

No your not doing it  wrong  you are apparently the only one  using it correctly  but its doesn't make sense how can we  use annotation scale  by turning it off for that reference..  please make a demo and  if you can include audio dont leave any steps out  because it looks  like  most of the posters including myself just dont  get it... especially in a sheet model with multi ref details at different scales and saved views or enlargements taken from reference files ....

Unknown said:

If you want your annotations on the references to maintain the same "relative size" you'll need to switch off Use Active Annotation Scale for that attachment in the Reference dialog.

ok I opened your file it works great  but I have questions see  points in screen shot numbers

1. you said switch off Use Active Annotation Scale for that attachment in the Reference dialog. but as  you can see  AS is turned on in the ref manager/ dialog.

2. your default model has annotation scale  set to 100:1 , why  do we do this?   your model is mm and  your sheet is mm, I understand  old school pre sheet models  use  1000: 1  for title sheet  m : mm  and draw text in meters so its going to  be mm on sheet  post print ...

3. the  ref attachment  is 1:250 and so on for each ref  but the  detail labels are auto generated but they are at some other text height , I cant seem to work out how to set the text height to a desired size  as a standard or automated, shouldnt  it be 2mm like the rest of your drawing...

Now if I turn off Annotation scale in the ref manager it wrecks all the text heights, so clearly we need annotation scale on in the ref attachs

I think where most of us are going  wrong is when we create the  sheet  we should not  use a scale other than 1:1 in mm. a bit tricky  when the model is  in meters but I dont want to get side tracked lets just  work on getting annotation scale right for differnt  model ref attached at  different scales looking right.

The problem with Annotation scale is people over think it. It pretty simple, actually far simpler than the older method of calculating text sized for every drawing scale. There's no math involved. Set your print text height and set your drawing scale.

Confusion starts when you start mixing Annotation and non-Annotated text, or not paying attention that the Annotation switches are on.

1. you said switch off Use Active Annotation Scale for that attachment in the Reference dialog. but as you can see AS is turned on in the ref manager/ dialog.

Switching it Off would allow you to keep the Annotation size as in the model, so with the annotation scale as defined in the (in this case default) model.

If you want all annotations in styles with a text size of 3 mm size to be 3 mm on the sheet, you leave it on.

2. The annotation scale in the model is your "standard" scale for this drawing. I placed it at 1:100 so that Text with IsAnnotation set to True will be displayed at 100 times the actual size, so that when printed at 1:100 it would be printed at "actual size".

It wouldn't be very convenient to use 3 mm high text in a room 5 m by 3 m. You'd probably want to be able to read the texts, notes and dimensions you're placing. Not that it would really break anything if you did, but it's generally not a good idea to scale your annotations to a scale that's a lot "higher" than what's set in your design model.

Scaling "up" will increase text sizes, which may then wind up in your geometry so that should be avoided. To be on the safe side you can set the annotation scale in your design model to the largest scale you want to use. That is if you consider 1:1000 to be "larger" than 1:100, while of course 0.001 is actually smaller than 0.01

3. The annotations in the bubbles on the sheet are probably just some out of the box style I didn't pay attention to. What I wanted to show is that the annotations in your design can, and do, scale to the reference scale. If you do NOT want them to scale to the Reference scale (thus using the Annotation Scale as defined in the (here default) model), then you should switch off Use Active Annotation Scale for that attachment in the Reference dialog. (see point 1).

It's really not that hard. Dock the Settings-DrawingScale toolbox with the "buttons" that are relevant to you. Use text styles with text sizes in the actual size on paper you want. Pay attention to whether Annotation Scale lock is on or not and that's pretty much it. Things start going wrong when people place text that's annotation scale sensitive when the scale is set to 1:1 (IsAnnotation=true in the Element Information or Properties dialog) and at a size that's way too big (let's say 1 m high).

That's why I recommend docking the Settings-Drawing Scale dialog. Working that way, you can always see exactly what it is you are doing.