Can a model have the model space and sheet(layout) space at the same time?

Question

Dear experts, 
 I found that in AutoCAD for a model, it has both the model space and the layout space at the same time. It means that if I modify the model in the model space, the model in the layout space will update automatically, and there is the association between the model space and the layout space. 
 My question: has MicroStation such ability that a model has both the model space and layout space at the same time, and associative with each other?

AutoCAD model space 
 
 AutoCAD layout space

George A. Martin · Accepted Answer

Hi Justin! A little bit of terminology definition, so we are all talking the same. 
 In A-CAD (AutoCAD) you have only 1 Model (Model space), and can have multiple Layouts (Paperspaces) per dwg file. An X-Ref is looking at (or Referencing) another file's Modelspace (seperate dwg). Viewports have 2 meanings in AutoCAD. The one we are talking about is when you are in a Layout, looking at (or Referencing) the Modelspace of the same dwg file. This Viewport is "Live Nested" meaning, not only seeing (Referencing) that dwg's Modelspace, but also seeing any X-Ref that the ModelSpace has made to other (dwg) files. and their References, etc. X-Ref and Viewports are handled as just References in M-Sta. (MicroStation). 
 In A-CAD the Modelspace cannot Reference (X-Ref) the Modelspace of the same file that you are in, OR Reference any Layout (Paperspaces)! In MicroStation you can! 
 A Model in MicroStation can be either a Design (Modelspace) Model, or a Sheet (Paperspace/Layout) Model. There is also a 3rd Model type, used in certain circumstances (i.e. BIM), called a "Drawing" Model. Forget the Drawing Model for now. The M-Sta. Design models and Sheet Models can Reference each other, or themselves (Self-Reference). You can have as many Design and Sheet Models as you want in a single dgn file, and they can be either 2D or 3D. You can Reference 3D > 2D or 2D > 3D at any time. They can also be switched from Sheet models to Design Models, or from Design to Sheet Models at any time the user wants. 
 In A-CAD when you are in a Layout looking at the Modelspace, you are just Referencing the Modelspace into the Layout. You are seeing and allowed to reach from the Paperspace (Layout) into the Modelspace and make changes. MicroStation allows you to do that also it's called "Activate" (the Reference). When you do that the stuff in your Layout (Sheet) is greyed and you can make changes in the other model being referenced. You can then "DeActivate" the reference, and the stuff in your sheet will un-grey. You can't just move/modify elements in the Referenced model unless you Activate the referenced model or actually go into that model. You can Copy elements from the Referenced model into your current model at any time as long as the "Locate" toggle is On for that Reference. You can snap to and measure/dimension using the referenced elements as long as the "Snap" toggle is On for that Reference. The display of the Reference can also be toggled On/Off using the "Display" toggle for that Reference. When Referencing a Clip Boundary is set to say this area is all I want to see of the Referenced model and Clip Masks can be set to not display areas of that referenced model. These can be reset at any time. 
 MicroStation can do Live Nesting when Referencing. M-Sta. can Reference a selected group of elements from another Model. Reference another file at a certain time in the history of the file (Design History), and much more like Reference either dgn or dwg files into a dgn file, without manually translating it first. AutoCAD has to translate the dgn to a dwg, before it can be X-Referenced. 
 What are you saying that MicroStation can't do, that you want to do, and that AutoCAD can?

Jose Pinho · Answer

Justin Wang said: has MicroStation such ability that a model has both the model space and layout space at the same time, and associative with each other? 
 You have this in Microstation, and a lot more. 
 You can have more than 1 model, in Acad you can only have one. 
 You can have 1 model only 2D (no Z values) for elements and no 3d commands. While other model can be 3d. In Acad even if Z-values are all 0 the model space is always 3d. 
 You can have more than one layout, as in Acad. This is also great so you can work according to you company standards. 
 In Microstation you even have another diferent model, called drawing which is exclusive 2d that is used to place annotations. 
 This will help you start: 
 https://communities.bentley.com/products/microstation/w/microstation__wiki/11408/models---microstation 
 Hope this helps. 
 Regards

Jose Pinho · Answer

Justin Wang said: I found that there is no the association between 2D model and 3D model in the MicroStation 
 Just like in Acad you have to create this. In your 3d model you can place clip volumes and save views with the clip volume associated and then in the 2d model call a reference (called viewports in layouts of Acad) of the saved view. This way anything that you change on your 3d model will be reflected automatically in your 2d model. 
 Don't understand your 3d model with the logo. If making a logo maybe no need to create it in a 3d model. Then in your layout you have your element placed there? You should call a reference from your design model. 
 Fishpond - Reference.dgn 
 Regards

Jose Pinho · Answer

Justin Wang said: referencing the design model to the sheet model isn't fully same with that in AutoCAD 
 Justin, 
 You can edit the elements present in the reference placed in the layout. Just like in Acad that you have to double click inside the viewport to activate it. In Microstation with your RMB (right mouse button) on top of any element from your reference and select Activate: 
 
 Regards

Can a model have the model space and sheet(layout) space at the same time?

Top Replies