[V8i/CE] Text properties of Item Types are read only in v8i

The concept of Item Types was introduced into MicroStation CONNECT Edition as a replacement to Tag Sets. You may be able to view this information in V8i but would not be able to make any modifications as it is not backwards compatible.

https://communities.bentley.com/products/microstation/f/microstation-forum/147140/connect-edition---backwards-compatibility-with-select-series/447738#447738

https://communities.bentley.com/products/microstation/w/microstation__wiki/23674/microstation-connect-edition-frequently-asked-questions

The concept of Item Types was introduced into MicroStation CONNECT Edition as a replacement to Tag Sets. You may be able to view this information in V8i but would not be able to make any modifications as it is not backwards compatible.

https://communities.bentley.com/products/microstation/f/microstation-forum/147140/connect-edition---backwards-compatibility-with-select-series/447738#447738

https://communities.bentley.com/products/microstation/w/microstation__wiki/23674/microstation-connect-edition-frequently-asked-questions

Andrew Bell said:

The concept of Item Types was introduced into MicroStation CONNECT Edition as a replacement to Tag Set

While Tag Sets were initially declared obsolete/deprecated when CONNECT introduced, we we told some time ago that they are no longer deprecated.  There remain a number of things that Tag Sets can do that Item Types cannot.

You can read Samir Haque's statement about Tags.

I know Item Types came with CE thats why I wanted to see if they where readable in V8i which they obviously are. I've attached a test file.

I can also edit all properties except for the text properties.

If I understand you right any backward compability of Item Types in V8i is more of a strike of luck that design intention?

/Krister

2746.Test.dgn

Andrew Bell said:

The concept of Item Types was introduced into MicroStation CONNECT Edition as a replacement to Tag Sets

Well, officialy yes and it's true that Item Types offer a lot of very nice features, but from users' perspective it's not true at all, especially from usability perspective (which is far more important than whether it's based on better technology or not).

With Tags and Tagset, it's "point and click" operation to attach tag with its value displayed. Item Types requires to define label cell and to store it in DGNLIB, which is 100x times longer and more complicated workflow. No way to use Item Types in this way. And with problem with Item Types > Labels syncrhonization in U13 and U13.1, Item Types now look not very reliable for some users.

Regards,

  Jan

Krister Surell said:

If I understand you right any backward compability of Item Types in V8i is more of a strike of luck that design intention?

Not quite, but an explanation of this issue requires a good knowledge of EC Framework (which is a part of dev documentation) and also technical details how this technology has been implemented in different MicroStation versions, which is Bentley internal topic and we can guess only ;-)

When I simplify it (but still lenghty explanation remains ;-), the backward compatibility itself is not a strike of luck, but natural consequence of used technology. EC Framework has been developed and used by Bentley in different products for (my assumption) at least 15 years. In MicroStation it has become visible in V8i and I guess the first user tool based on EC Framework was SHP format support (where SHP attributes are converted on the fly to EC data).

Item Types are also based on EC Framework, technically "a special Item Types schema" is created at background. Because EC in V8i and EC in CE are "nearly the same" (and nearly is crucial here), V8i is able to read the data, because EC schemas defining data structure are compatible.

But "a definition chain" is more complicated; it's EC schema > EC class (that can be modified further by custom attributes) > EC property (again can be modified by custom attributes). And some definitions, especially pre-defined custom attributes supported by MicroStation, have been enhanced (so Attribute schema changed from 1.2 in V8i to 1.13 in CE), and implementations of EC engine and EC GUI have been improved (especially element properties dialog).

It's a good demonstration of EC power and main features: Because data are described using EC schemas (metadata language), even older version is able to read them. But because details have changed and it's not possible to change what is hardcoded in V8i, the readibility is ensured, but some properties cannot be edited, because MicroStation V8i does not know how.

BTW As a matter of interest, whereas EC in "classic" products like MicroStation evolves slowly and basic compatibility is ensured (because ECObjects2 are used internally),  iModelJS initiaitve and libraries broke the compatibility, because some extra conceptual changes were required to implement into EC schemas and related APIs (ECObjects3) to be able to support digital twins concept and other new features. See this page for more details.

HTH Jan

Item Types vs Tags

Jan Šlegr said:

with problem with Item Types > Labels syncrhonization in U13 and U13.1, Item Types now look not very reliable

It's been unreliable for longer than that!  I noted that text fields in cells (e.g. MIcroStation labels) do not update consistently some time ago.  Paul Connelly acknowledged that bug.  Robert Hook supplied a defect no. 985212.

Jan Šlegr said:

it's true that Item Types offer a lot of very nice features, but from users' perspective it's not true at all, especially from usability perspective (which is far more important than whether it's based on better technology or not)

Which is why we invented AreaAnnotator and other members of the TagWorks family.  They make it simple to use Item Types and work with specific element types (e.g. area features).

EC Framework

Jan Šlegr said:

an explanation of this issue requires a good knowledge of EC Framework

Which you clearly have acquired through years of study and exploration!  But why can't Bentley Systems explain their core ideas?  The EC Framework is great technology: why aren't they trumpeting it to the world?  Samir Haque promised a white paper over a year ago, but nothing materialised.