Hello,
This is my first post here.
I wonder about few BIM model functionality things and how/if they are achievable in Microstation.
-Is there an option for hierarchical (tree-like) picklist?
For example you pick a value from picklist of order 1 and there is new picklist of order 2 showing up corresponding or associated with picklist of order 1. Imagine tree-llike classification of objects. If i pick "bridge" in the first picklist i will get options like "pier, abutment, ..." in the second picklist
-Is there a way to attach a set of attributes according to specific value in already defined atribute.
To explain. For example i pick "concrete object" as a value for object property attribute, this will trigger automatic assigning of a new set of attributes particular for concrete objects. This definately might require some programming, but is this possible? I have seen that there is a place to put formula into attribute value but this is not yet possible in my version of OpenBuilding
-Is there a way to obtain a property from an associative object into parent object attribute?
Lets say i have "associatively extracted face" on a smart solid object (concrete structure) and i assign attribute to that face "form work=true". In the parent object property there would be an attribute "formwork area" and there would be a rule set into the value to search for all child objects which are face-like and have attribute formwork=true and sum their areas.
-Is there a way to create arbitrary parent-child relations between any objects?
Associative extraction for edges and faces is a great tool how to assign metadata to parent objects (when solid is modelled as solid but you want to show its length so you just extract an edge and say this represents "meta length" of this solid. But what if i want to create relationship between any object and say this object with no apparent relation with another object, not even touching, is in relationship to embed some arbitrary hierarchy into model.
-GenerativeComponents for handling metadata and parametric cells ?
I have looked into generative components but have not found any nodes for assigning item types or similar functions for handling model metadata. Above mentioned functionality could be greatly automized via GC like with Revit/Dynamo. Another thing is how to load parametric cell into GC and change its parameters. I can only see a node to load basic static cell.
Thank to any of you for the informative answer :)
Hi Ivan,
honestly, it's confusing a bit to ask in context of MicroStation, which is general 2D/3D tool, about BIM functionality (general concept) and GC (parametrized scripting modeling tool). The answers depend tightly whether you ask from user's or developer's position. In fact, from my developer perspective, the answer is typically "yes".
Ivan Galik said:Is there an option for hierarchical (tree-like) picklist?
I think it should be possible with zero or very little programming, using EC schema (which itself - unfortunately - is huge and complex topic). I am not sure about defining dynamic refreshing of one list when the second one changes, but when not by configuration, it can be done using some code.
Ivan Galik said:Is there a way to attach a set of attributes according to specific value in already defined atribute.
I see no problem with that, of course to develop custom placement tool is required.
I recall a discussion (I think it ended with posting new Idea) focusing similar workflow: To enhance existing Template system to allow also define Item Type that will be attached automatically. It's quite close to your question (but not the same): When a temple will be active and an element is placed, defined Item Type will be attached.
Another approach can be to develop monitoring application, that when e.g. specific object (e.g. parametric cell) will be placed to with defined parameters (e.g. on particular level), it will attach Item Types or EC data to such element automatically.
Ivan Galik said:Is there a way to obtain a property from an associative object into parent object attribute?
Yes, at least partially, without programming. Item Types (and EC data in general) can use Expressions and you can harvest selected information about the element in these expressions. This option is still at beginning, but is quite powerful and can be extended by providing own providers (programming required).
Ivan Galik said:Is there a way to create arbitrary parent-child relations between any objects?
Yes, in several different ways. The oldest and the most traditional is to encapsulate element into complex element, nested optionally. It's e.g. how SmartSolids in MicroStation V8i or building parts in OpenBuilding Designer are created. It's straightforward, but not very flexible way.
More modern way (even when "modern" is relative) is to use EC relationships that allows to define different relation between other EC classes. This is solely development area and to define the relationships in a right way requires very good knowledge of EC technology and usually also several versions to evaluate the best approach.
EC relations are used also to describe other (not originally EC) in DGN data, like "element belongs to a model", "element belongs to a level", "data is attached on element" etc.
The problem with these relations is that even when defined and stored in standardized format, they cannot be interpreted by MicroStation generally and you need custom code (e.g. element handler) to work with them. It's an example of parametric solids, stored not as complex elements, but as weakly referenced hidden elements with (I think) EC relationships defined, where special ElementHandler, identified by opaque Type106 element.
Probably the most complex example of using EC data and EC relations is OpenRoads technology, used in OpenRoads Designer. Any element is enhanced by EC data and relations are defined using EC relationship classes, stored in DGN file.
Ivan Galik said:GenerativeComponents for handling metadata and parametric cells ?
GeneratiecComponents have been developed for years in parallel with MicroStation and other products, so right now, there is not many intersections and synergy. We can hope, as Marco wrote, GC will become more aware of standard MicroStation features in future.
With regards,
Jan
Bentley Accredited Developer: iTwin Platform - AssociateLabyrinth Technology | dev.notes() | cad.point
Thanks for the exhaustive answer Jan. If I understand correctly your point on Element Templates and Item Types, this is already available:
Marco Salino said:this is already available:
Thanks for this information!
I kept in my memory that "it will be added" and did not realize that it happened already :-)
Regards,