[MStn CE U15] Bug: Raster + vector displayed differently than in V8i

The Update Sequence is incorrect if you want the references to display on top of the raster. The Update Sequence of the references will display the last one in the list on top of the previous files.

Think of it this way; the one listed first is the first one processed and displayed. The second one listed is then processed next and will be displayed on top of the first one processed. (newest on top) MicroStation continues down the list displaying each file on top of the files further up the list.

So the first thing you want to do is move the Active Design File to the top of the list in the Update Sequence dialog box. This will take care of the DWG file displaying on top of the active file (raster image).

Something that may be effecting the display order is the “Plane” setting in the Raster Manager dialog box. With your drawings, this setting was available to me sometimes and not other times. It should only be available for raster references and not embedded rasters. I am not sure why I got it sometimes but it does seem to effect the display order of DGN references and rasters. It allows you to display rasters as a background. This may be why the referenced DGN was displayed on top of the raster image and not use the Update Sequence. It did not affect the display order of the DWG reference. If anything, this needs to be looked into be Bentley.

Since the Update Sequence was wrong in your drawings, and should have the active file listed first, this may be Working As Designed. I do not have V8i installed to compare the two versions but V8i Did not have the “Plane” setting in Raster Manager and could be causing the difference.

@Jayson; you may want to research this issue further.

Hi Pellet,

Pellet Pusher said:

The Update Sequence is incorrect if you want the references to display on top of the raster.

In my opinion you do not understand the reported problem: It's not about whether Update sequence is correct or not, which, btw, is), but that design files created in V8i are displayed (and printed) differently in CE, which can easily lead to serious troubles in engineering practice.

Pellet Pusher said:

Think of it this way

Even when you are right in general, this rule is not valid for the discussed situation, because when a raster is placed at background plane, it was defined (at least in V8i) it will be always behind vector elements. It's the reason why the background plane (and foreground plane) exists.

Pellet Pusher said:

With your drawings, this setting was available to me sometimes and not other times.

They are clear rules defined, when planes can be used (are supported), so it's not "sometimes". The planes were introduced together with element priority concept and they made Update sequence obsolete in 2D completely (but still useful in some 3D scenarios).

Pellet Pusher said:

Since the Update Sequence was wrong in your drawings

Again, you missed the point: Something that works fine in V8i does not work in CE.

The second point you miss is that assignment to background planes have the highest priority (controls how raster are displayed) over all other settings.

Regards,

  Jan

Hi Jan, 

Thanks for the investigation. I tested the DGN you sent, if we move the active model to the top in the Update Sequence list, all these 3 files display correctly,

I agree with Pellet, which should be WAD. The different display between v8i and CE , I think , was caused by the different settings of below 3 configuration variables:

MS_REF_MASTERFILELAST_SHEET

MS_REF_MASTERFILELAST_DRAWING

MS_REF_MASTERFILELAST_DESIGN

Which control the default update sequence of references and master model in the design model.

The help document:

https://docs.bentley.com/LiveContent/web/MicroStation%20Help-v17/en/ReferenceFilesUpdateSequence.html

Best Regards

Chris

Hi Chris,

thanks for your answer.

chris.wu said:

I agree with Pellet, which should be WAD.

With all respect, I tend to disagree with this conclusion. A part of the problem is that when background/foreground planes were introduced, it was never clearly defined what does it mean in context of older update sequence concept.

But the planes were always presented like "always at background" and "always at foreground", without any condition or dependency on the update sequence, attached structure of references etc. And it's how it works in V8i "out of the box" without any variables settings or update sequence changes.

chris.wu said:

The help document:

Sorry, but as long as the documentation does not provide clear rules how the update sequence and background/foreground planes fit together, the help is not the justification of the problem.

chris.wu said:

I think , was caused by the different settings of below 3 configuration variables:

I will check it (will try later today), but right now I am pretty sure in both configurations, no these variables are used, so we are back in the original issue "the same configuration for V8i and CE, but different result". But as I wrote, I will check and confirm the variables setting to be sure ;-)

Regards,

  Jan

Hi Chris,

thanks for your answer.

chris.wu said:

I agree with Pellet, which should be WAD.

With all respect, I tend to disagree with this conclusion. A part of the problem is that when background/foreground planes were introduced, it was never clearly defined what does it mean in context of older update sequence concept.

But the planes were always presented like "always at background" and "always at foreground", without any condition or dependency on the update sequence, attached structure of references etc. And it's how it works in V8i "out of the box" without any variables settings or update sequence changes.

chris.wu said:

The help document:

Sorry, but as long as the documentation does not provide clear rules how the update sequence and background/foreground planes fit together, the help is not the justification of the problem.

chris.wu said:

I think , was caused by the different settings of below 3 configuration variables:

I will check it (will try later today), but right now I am pretty sure in both configurations, no these variables are used, so we are back in the original issue "the same configuration for V8i and CE, but different result". But as I wrote, I will check and confirm the variables setting to be sure ;-)

Regards,

  Jan