BUG, again... : parametric cell after inputting forbidden value shows error that change is ignored (good) but no subsequent allowable modification propagates (bad)

Microstation update 16.

I feel like i should be paid for beta testing. Or as i see the state of the product alpha testing.

This is by no means acceptable when an user trying out rather simple features finds so many bugs withing a day.

When you place a parametric cell. Lets say a hollow cylinder with parameters length, diameter, wall thickness.

You try different values and its ok. Parametric cell geometry is adjusted/modified correctly.

After you input apparently not allowable value for examle wall thickness exceeding diameter you get a message about it being ignored. Still fine and expected.

The problem is when you try to change the value again to normal range of allowable values. Parametric cell stops working. Nothing is changed.

Even deleting and placing the same parametric cell again prevents it to being modified. Not even file reopening helps here.

The parametric cell:

3487.kniznica_buniek_VPX_mosty_a_geotechnika.cel

  • Hi Ivan,

    I feel like i should be paid for beta testing. Or as i see the state of the product alpha testing.

    Welcome in club, unfortunately... :-)

    When you place a parametric cell. Lets say a hollow cylinder

    I found your description not very informative. It's not a novel, why not to use more engineering approach using e.g. numbered list of steps, how to reproduce the bug?

    The parametric cell:

    I am not able to simulate your workflow (using MicroStation CE U16). I am not sure whether the problem is on my computer or with your library, but when the cell is placed, no variables are displayed.

    After you input apparently not allowable value for examle wall thickness exceeding diameter you get a message about it being ignored.

    What MicroStation reports and tells (e.g. in Message Center)? I played a bit with your cell and when I entered nonsense value during the placement, MicroStation warned the cell will be converted into SmartSolid, because when entered values are used, parametric engine failed (because of nonsense input). Is it the same on your computer?

    Even deleting and placing the same parametric cell again prevents it to being modified. Not even file reopening helps here.

    It's expected behavior, because when you delete (only) the cell instance in model, the cell definition is not removed from design file.

    My reconstruction, what happened:

    1. Parametric cell is placed
    2. The cell definition is imported into active design file at background, stored (I think) as hidden separate model. This concept is similar to shared cells, when the first placed cell requires the definition is imported into design file.
    3. When the same cell is placed again, this stored definition is used.
    4. When MicroStation is not able to solve entered parameters, because they are incorrect (geometry cannot be created), it converts the cell definition into SmartSolid. When it happens, MicroStation reports this change to a user.
    5. When the cell is placed again, because stored definition contains modified cell, the wrong cell is placed.

    It would be nice whether somebody from Bentley is able to confirm it or to provide more details.

    A solution is to reset the cell definition, in other word to update stored (local) definition with the original one from the cell library:

    1. Attach the cell library.
    2. In Cell Library dialog, set shared cells to be displayed.
    3. In context menu (at right mouse button), select Update Cell Definition.
    4. The local definition (shared cell) is updated (replaced) by the definition with the same name from the attached library.

    With regards,

      Jan

  • Quick update: I played with your cell library a bit more, finally variables were displayed correctly, so I assume I was able to follow your workflow better.

    In my opinion it's not bug, but WAD (worked as designed). As far as I remember, this is how MicroStation parametric cells work from the beginning. And MicroStation tells you exactly what is happening and what consequences will be:

    With regards,

      Jan

  • Good morning,

    Scenario why I suppose why this is bad handling of a situation even if its WAD. I can imagine my colleagues or anyone will place these cells into model. They will mistype a value and get the error which they will skip or ignore. Thy will continue with their work and further in modelling they will try to modify the variables and it wont work because they have long forgotten two days ago there was a problem and microstation says you should have clicked undo.

    In my opinion logical and expected handling would be that you get the message about not permissible modification to parametric cell and it returns automatically to the last correct value. Parametric cell should never stop working and require reloading. Or maybe the program asks you want you want to do, convert it to smart solid or return to previous correct value?. 

    Rigth now you are only told that it failed and you can undo and thats it...

  • I agree with Ivan, the small messages in the notification center/notification bar are not visible enough for such a significant change to the model. 
    There should be a pop up window, asking you to confirm/decline the change. 

    Same goes for creation of parametric cells, where MicroStation used to delete constraints in order to fulfill new constraints. This was also only shown as a small message in the notification window. And the best thing was: It did not even bother to tell you how many, or which constraints were deleted. Just "one or more constraints were deleted...". Yeah really great error message. It was so frustrating at the beginning, when I just did not notice the message in the notification bar. 
    I am not sure if MicroStation still does it. Have not worked with the new parametrics in a while, because we switched back to the old feature cells (dimension driven design) as the new parametrics caused to many problems.

    -------------------------------------------

    Currently using:

    OpenPlant Modeler - Version: 10.09.00.74

    [MicroStation - Version: 10.14.02.01]