I see 2 ways to create a Group in MicroStation:
- Named Group.
Group is very limitated because I understand we cannot add/remove elements later. And it is basically a Cell.
I understand that "Graphic Group" is a Named Group...
Because tools such as "Add to Graphic Group" and "Remove From Graphic group" are only for "Named Groups".
There is also "Graphic Group Lock" (ON /OFF) for Named Groups.
Why Bentley differenciates between Graphic Group and Named Group? is not the same? Is the old name of Named Group?
Joan Martínez Serra said:I see 2 ways to create a Group in MicroStation:
- Named Group.
the worst is that it is one dialog - in my view - "Add to Graphic Group" there you have to switch on the Option "Named Group" . Without you get GG, with the option an NG.
That is confusing.
Named Groups allow dependencies and "active" and "passive" members.
The worst is though that you can not copy that "Named Group" (or create a cell from it) ( it is a longstanding request) - In effect the Named Groups are not useable in practice.
You can copy GGs (it increases the GG Number)
Also - to confuse new users ? - there is the "Group" command which effectively creates an (unnamed) cell. (You can give it a name later in the properties)
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Gerd Eisenacher said:In effect the Named Groups are not useable in practice.
I strongly disagree with such general statement, especially because I know users that use NG daily.
It does not mean that NG is not usable for you.
Gerd Eisenacher said:The worst is though that you can not copy that "Named Group"
Similarly to Jon I do not quite understand what do you mean by "copy NG":
Gerd Eisenacher said: (or create a cell from it) ( it is a longstanding request)
I do not recall I saw such request in ideas, but they are many of them, so maybe I missed it.
The request sounds interesting, but is not simple, because NG allows "far referencing", when elements in NG can be from active model, and from direct/nested references. So more conditions have to be fulfilled to allow to create a cell from NG content.
Gerd Eisenacher said:Also - to confuse new users ? - there is the "Group" command which effectively creates an (unnamed) cell.
Well, it's a result of history and only limited "good words" in language. Do you have any idea how one or second tool should be renamed?
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I guess you are mixing up GG with NG. A "simple" GG (numbered) you can copy when GG-lock is on.
A named group can not be copied.
A named group can even get elements from a reference attached.
So what can we do with a named group?
If it has elements from a reference you cant move the group as a whole - obviously.
You can copy the named group elements. But then you end up with just the single elements.
You can create a display set from a NG, nice.... communities.bentley.com/.../named-groups-displaysets-and-quick-sets
What else? Obviously I was expecting something different,,,
Gerd Eisenacher said:I guess you are mixing up GG with NG. A "simple" GG (numbered) you can copy when GG-lock is on.
No. I did a simple test. Opened the Named Group dialog, created a new group, added a few elements. I then copied those elements. They all copy as a named group with graphic group lock on. With the lock off they do not copy as a group. Although as individual elements they still show as being part of a group.
There is lots I do not know about this, new to me, function. But in it's simplest form it does indeed recognize graphic group lock.
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When a Named Group is copied, the copied elements are no longer part of a group. They may have been copied together, but after the copying they have no relation to each other. This, to me, makes them a limited usage item. I mean, it's great I have a group of these things, but that's kind of all I see. I would like the ability to copy a named group and end up with another (probably incremented) named group, or at least an unnamed graphic group.
I dislike graphic groups because there is no visual cue as to what elements are in the GG, and elements can be manipulated separately (with the selection tool) even if the graphic group lock is on. I can't think of how many times some unrelated element accidentally got included in a graphic group, to end up moved or rotated or otherwise manipulated in unexpected ways (because it wasn't supposed to be part of a GG!).
There is another type of group that is not a Graphic Group nor a Named Group, and that is the type of group that creates orphan cells. This is actually the type I use most often because it is most useful to me. I can create it on the fly, it is not dependent on any lock status, and if I need to make a copy of this orphan cell group, I get another orphan cell group (still grouped). While this tool is often discouraged, I love it because of the ease of use.
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MaryB said:When a Named Group is copied...
You can assign a propagation policy to a Named Group.
Bob Rayner said: Opened the Named Group dialog, created a new group, added a few elements. I then copied those elements. They all copy as a named group with graphic group lock on
One propagation policy is just that: the Change Propagation options are: Group Lock — only when Graphic Group Lock is on.
Regards, Jon Summers LA Solutions
MaryB said:love it because of the ease of us
So lets define what the use of each of these groupings is Including use cases.I have a hard time to find examples for some. And maybe how they can be advanced (in ideas)
Jan Šlegr said:I know users that use NG daily
I would like to understand how they are utilizing them.