<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8" ?>
<?xml-stylesheet type="text/xsl" href="https://communities.bentley.com/cfs-file/__key/system/syndication/rss.xsl" media="screen"?><rss version="2.0" xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/" xmlns:slash="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/slash/" xmlns:wfw="http://wellformedweb.org/CommentAPI/"><channel><title>What is actually a &amp;quot;Graphic Group&amp;quot;?</title><link>https://communities.bentley.com/products/microstation/f/microstation-forum/219449/what-is-actually-a-graphic-group</link><description>Hi. 
 I see 2 ways to create a Group in MicroStation: 
 - Group 
 - Named Group. 
 
 Group is very limitated because I understand we cannot add/remove elements later. And it is basically a Cell. 
 I understand that &amp;quot;Graphic Group&amp;quot; is a Named Group...</description><dc:language>en-US</dc:language><generator>Telligent Community 12</generator><item><title>RE: What is actually a "Graphic Group"?</title><link>https://communities.bentley.com/thread/672414?ContentTypeID=1</link><pubDate>Fri, 17 Sep 2021 09:48:59 GMT</pubDate><guid isPermaLink="false">6dad98f5-dbc9-4c4d-a9ba-e9da8dc6aa8e:884f8d92-4843-4952-b6fd-6d87e2b3cdab</guid><dc:creator>mlm</dc:creator><description>&lt;p&gt;What Named Groups do (and for me) is to provide hierarchical groups that can be NESTED - even hierarchical nesting. With active and passive members. So I can move them around grouped grabbing the &amp;quot;active&amp;quot; element or single when grabbing one of the passive.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I have this simplified workplace scenario in mind. RED is active, blue are the passive members. (GG-Lock on)&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&amp;hellip; Workplace_001 &amp;gt; move active &amp;gt; move passive&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;a href="https://communities.bentley.com/cfs-file/__key/communityserver-discussions-components-files/273/2021_2D00_09_2D00_17-at-10_2D00_55_2D00_52_5F00_Trim.mp4"&gt;communities.bentley.com/.../2021_2D00_09_2D00_17-at-10_2D00_55_2D00_52_5F00_Trim.mp4&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&amp;nbsp;I can copy my workgroup -&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&amp;nbsp;but then they are no group any more&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href="https://communities.bentley.com/cfs-file/__key/communityserver-discussions-components-files/273/2021_2D00_09_2D00_17-at-11_2D00_08_2D00_18.mp4"&gt;communities.bentley.com/.../2021_2D00_09_2D00_17-at-11_2D00_08_2D00_18.mp4&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;strong&gt;What would be of real ADDED VALUE is to be able to copy&lt;/strong&gt; the workplaces (-increment like the legacy GGs), then add them to a hierarchical group &amp;hellip; (see the mockup video below) Then you are still able to move things around - either together or single.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;(the highlight needs to show what belongs together including the relationship - like the colors I used here)&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;a href="https://communities.bentley.com/cfs-file/__key/communityserver-discussions-components-files/273/2021_2D00_09_2D00_17-at-11_2D00_36_2D00_19_5F00_Trim.mp4"&gt;communities.bentley.com/.../2021_2D00_09_2D00_17-at-11_2D00_36_2D00_19_5F00_Trim.mp4&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Conclusion:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The only bit that seems to be missing here is the copying with an&amp;nbsp; incemented Name!? And maybe some enhanced highlighting of the relationships&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;It appears hard to follow the idea that NGs are 1. only one off and 2. to help to JUST create Display Sets&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I did not take in account the NGs with members from reference. There it gets quite arcane to me.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;div style="clear:both;"&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</description></item><item><title>RE: What is actually a "Graphic Group"?</title><link>https://communities.bentley.com/thread/672399?ContentTypeID=1</link><pubDate>Fri, 17 Sep 2021 07:15:14 GMT</pubDate><guid isPermaLink="false">6dad98f5-dbc9-4c4d-a9ba-e9da8dc6aa8e:d5ede2b3-7527-47cb-8a16-ab149e2faf1b</guid><dc:creator>mlm</dc:creator><description>&lt;p&gt;There are a couple of ideas regarding requested &lt;span style="text-decoration:underline;"&gt;enhancements&lt;/span&gt; for Named Groups that are also worth to VOTE for&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href="https://microstation.ideas.aha.io/ideas/MSR-I-721"&gt;https://microstation.ideas.aha.io/ideas/MSR-I-721&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href="https://microstation.ideas.aha.io/ideas/MS-I-281"&gt;https://microstation.ideas.aha.io/ideas/MS-I-281&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href="https://microstation.ideas.aha.io/ideas/MS-I-263"&gt;https://microstation.ideas.aha.io/ideas/MS-I-263&lt;/a&gt; (including conversation with Michael Salino - you could add to)&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;div style="clear:both;"&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</description></item><item><title>RE: What is actually a "Graphic Group"?</title><link>https://communities.bentley.com/thread/672291?ContentTypeID=1</link><pubDate>Thu, 16 Sep 2021 13:44:52 GMT</pubDate><guid isPermaLink="false">6dad98f5-dbc9-4c4d-a9ba-e9da8dc6aa8e:b6dec42f-1d53-4f1e-80c4-7cc889223029</guid><dc:creator>Jon Summers</dc:creator><description>[quote userid="5901" url="~/products/microstation/f/microstation-forum/219449/what-is-actually-a-graphic-group/672231"] Some would like to know use cases to then decide whether they are applicable for them[/quote]
&lt;p&gt;For example, using a &lt;a title="MicroStation Help: To Select a Named Group or Hierarchy as the Displayset" href="https://docs.bentley.com/LiveContent/web/MicroStation%20Help-v18/en/GUID-F81BDB14-417E-9557-8954-21B4EA924E5E.html" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank"&gt;Named Group to populate a Display Set&lt;/a&gt;.&amp;nbsp; Now you can control the display of that NG.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Update: I see that you already &lt;a title="MicroStation Wiki: Named groups, displaysets and quick sets" href="/products/microstation/w/askinga/422/named-groups-displaysets-and-quick-sets" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank"&gt;mentioned this Wiki&lt;/a&gt; on that same topic.&amp;nbsp;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Question to Bentley Systems (&lt;a href="/members/7b6967f7_2d00_20c4_2d00_4c22_2d00_bd29_2d00_8e3c504df19f"&gt;Eduardo Lazzarotto&lt;/a&gt;): that&amp;nbsp;&lt;a title="MicroStation Wiki: Named groups, displaysets and quick sets" href="/products/microstation/w/askinga/422/named-groups-displaysets-and-quick-sets" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank"&gt;Wiki article&lt;/a&gt; was written in 2004 and is archived.&amp;nbsp; Is it invalid for CONNECT?&amp;nbsp; If it is valid, move it to the current MicroStation Wiki.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;h4&gt;&lt;span style="color:seagreen;"&gt;Vote!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/h4&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;a title="Ideas: Update the Named Group Wiki" href="https://microstation.ideas.aha.io/ideas/MSR-I-769" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank"&gt;Vote for this Idea&lt;/a&gt; to have that Wiki brought into the CONNECT era.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;div style="clear:both;"&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</description></item><item><title>RE: What is actually a "Graphic Group"?</title><link>https://communities.bentley.com/thread/672289?ContentTypeID=1</link><pubDate>Thu, 16 Sep 2021 13:11:17 GMT</pubDate><guid isPermaLink="false">6dad98f5-dbc9-4c4d-a9ba-e9da8dc6aa8e:8b7ae344-cbc4-4936-855c-b1d4cd4a2b02</guid><dc:creator>Jon Summers</dc:creator><description>[quote userid="2436" url="~/products/microstation/f/microstation-forum/219449/what-is-actually-a-graphic-group/672285"]When I could just select my elements, hit CRTL+G and continue on. I can even give my orphan cell a name in the time it would take to generate a named group[/quote]
&lt;p&gt;You&amp;#39;ve changed topic.&amp;nbsp; Grouping elements by creating an anonymous cell (&lt;em&gt;Ctrl-G&lt;/em&gt;) is not the same as the ancient Graphic Group mechanism. It pre-dates Named Groups by a MicroStation generation.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The fact that Named Groups exist doesn&amp;#39;t stop you using either the Graphic Group or anonymous cell idioms.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;div style="clear:both;"&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</description></item><item><title>RE: What is actually a "Graphic Group"?</title><link>https://communities.bentley.com/thread/672285?ContentTypeID=1</link><pubDate>Thu, 16 Sep 2021 12:44:51 GMT</pubDate><guid isPermaLink="false">6dad98f5-dbc9-4c4d-a9ba-e9da8dc6aa8e:85ca4b35-d110-4b3c-908a-0c976504ed7e</guid><dc:creator>MaryB</dc:creator><description>&lt;p&gt;Another step, another setting, another few clicks before I can get back to working. When I could just select my elements, hit CRTL+G and continue on. I can even give my orphan cell a name in the time it would take to generate a named group.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I am with Gerd on this - I&amp;#39;m sure I lack imagination because I don&amp;#39;t grasp the use for named groups. But my drawings aren&amp;#39;t all that complicated and they don&amp;#39;t have thousands of elements to relate and keep track of. Perhaps if I could see how they would actually provide benefit I would be interested in digging deeper.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;But lack of imagination has always been a weakness of mine. I tried taking some art classes in college and one of the teachers actually told me &amp;quot;It&amp;#39;s a good thing you&amp;#39;re going to be an engineer&amp;quot;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;div style="clear:both;"&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</description></item><item><title>RE: What is actually a "Graphic Group"?</title><link>https://communities.bentley.com/thread/672231?ContentTypeID=1</link><pubDate>Thu, 16 Sep 2021 08:21:54 GMT</pubDate><guid isPermaLink="false">6dad98f5-dbc9-4c4d-a9ba-e9da8dc6aa8e:29945443-0e8e-4e23-acbb-72c4e122b360</guid><dc:creator>mlm</dc:creator><description>&lt;p&gt;Right, but obviously some (including me) would like to know use cases to then decide whether they are applicable for them. We often &amp;quot;think&amp;quot; we understand - like here - only to hit a invisible wall. Maybe it is my lack of imagination (or intellectual capability...)&lt;/p&gt;&lt;div style="clear:both;"&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</description></item><item><title>RE: What is actually a "Graphic Group"?</title><link>https://communities.bentley.com/thread/672219?ContentTypeID=1</link><pubDate>Thu, 16 Sep 2021 07:47:31 GMT</pubDate><guid isPermaLink="false">6dad98f5-dbc9-4c4d-a9ba-e9da8dc6aa8e:2ce98934-1641-4c6a-a72a-2b8a56b88afe</guid><dc:creator>Jon Summers</dc:creator><description>[quote userid="5901" url="~/products/microstation/f/microstation-forum/219449/what-is-actually-a-graphic-group/672216"]Is this not very obscure?[/quote]
&lt;p&gt;I think that &lt;em&gt;Named Groups&lt;/em&gt; were devised by &lt;a href="/members/00aafd3f_2d00_47dc_2d00_4463_2d00_ad18_2d00_3d7577995412"&gt;Barry Bentley&lt;/a&gt; for MicroStation V8&lt;em&gt;i&lt;/em&gt;.&amp;nbsp; I don&amp;#39;t believe that he intended them to be obscure.&amp;nbsp; As with many things, it&amp;#39;s subjective whether something is obscure or arcane; familiarity with NG use will lessen &lt;a title="Wikipedia: Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fear,_uncertainty,_and_doubt" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank"&gt;FUD&lt;/a&gt; (fear, uncertainty and doubt/&lt;span class="Y2IQFc" lang="de"&gt;Angst, Unsicherheit und Zweifel&lt;/span&gt;).&lt;/p&gt;&lt;div style="clear:both;"&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</description></item><item><title>RE: What is actually a "Graphic Group"?</title><link>https://communities.bentley.com/thread/672216?ContentTypeID=1</link><pubDate>Thu, 16 Sep 2021 07:39:53 GMT</pubDate><guid isPermaLink="false">6dad98f5-dbc9-4c4d-a9ba-e9da8dc6aa8e:a41b4838-e3f9-485b-a585-5a077e1f72a8</guid><dc:creator>mlm</dc:creator><description>[quote userid="2269" url="~/products/microstation/f/microstation-forum/219449/what-is-actually-a-graphic-group/672193"]You can assign a &lt;a title="MicroStation Help: Named Groups Propagation" href="https://docs.bentley.com/LiveContent/web/MicroStation%20Help-v18/en/GUID-D23910F2-EF04-5B24-5AD6-5057969C9E7C.html" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank"&gt;propagation policy&lt;/a&gt; [/quote]
&lt;p&gt;OK, can one give me an example of a use case? Is this not very obscure? How do I &amp;quot;see&amp;quot; as a subsequent user how these settings have been done for a particular group?&lt;/p&gt;&lt;div style="clear:both;"&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</description></item><item><title>RE: What is actually a "Graphic Group"?</title><link>https://communities.bentley.com/thread/672215?ContentTypeID=1</link><pubDate>Thu, 16 Sep 2021 07:35:40 GMT</pubDate><guid isPermaLink="false">6dad98f5-dbc9-4c4d-a9ba-e9da8dc6aa8e:43a853ed-f396-4031-b97f-0289181c6a98</guid><dc:creator>mlm</dc:creator><description>&lt;p&gt;spot on&lt;/p&gt;
[quote userid="2436" url="~/products/microstation/f/microstation-forum/219449/what-is-actually-a-graphic-group/672107"]love it because of the ease of us[/quote]
&lt;p&gt;So lets define what the use of each of these groupings is Including use cases.I have a hard time to find examples for some. And maybe how they can be advanced (in ideas)&amp;nbsp;&lt;/p&gt;
[quote userid="2473" url="~/products/microstation/f/microstation-forum/219449/what-is-actually-a-graphic-group/671791"]I know users that use NG daily[/quote]
&lt;p&gt;I would like to understand how they are utilizing them.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;div style="clear:both;"&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</description></item><item><title>RE: What is actually a "Graphic Group"?</title><link>https://communities.bentley.com/thread/672193?ContentTypeID=1</link><pubDate>Thu, 16 Sep 2021 06:14:21 GMT</pubDate><guid isPermaLink="false">6dad98f5-dbc9-4c4d-a9ba-e9da8dc6aa8e:8981ee28-2d82-4f5f-84c3-b52dee249912</guid><dc:creator>Jon Summers</dc:creator><description>[quote userid="2436" url="~/products/microstation/f/microstation-forum/219449/what-is-actually-a-graphic-group/672107"]When a Named Group is copied...[/quote]
&lt;p&gt;You can assign a &lt;a title="MicroStation Help: Named Groups Propagation" href="https://docs.bentley.com/LiveContent/web/MicroStation%20Help-v18/en/GUID-D23910F2-EF04-5B24-5AD6-5057969C9E7C.html" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank"&gt;propagation policy&lt;/a&gt; to a Named Group.&lt;/p&gt;
[quote userid="340847" url="~/products/microstation/f/microstation-forum/219449/what-is-actually-a-graphic-group/672034"] Opened the Named Group dialog, created a new group, added a few elements. I then copied those elements. They all copy as a named group with graphic group lock on[/quote]
&lt;p&gt;One propagation policy is just that: &lt;cite&gt; the Change Propagation options are: &lt;b&gt;Group Lock&lt;/b&gt; &amp;mdash; only when Graphic Group Lock is on&lt;/cite&gt;.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;div style="clear:both;"&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</description></item><item><title>RE: What is actually a "Graphic Group"?</title><link>https://communities.bentley.com/thread/672107?ContentTypeID=1</link><pubDate>Wed, 15 Sep 2021 21:19:23 GMT</pubDate><guid isPermaLink="false">6dad98f5-dbc9-4c4d-a9ba-e9da8dc6aa8e:d6055fc5-5e99-4422-b33c-c624a34dd21d</guid><dc:creator>MaryB</dc:creator><description>&lt;p&gt;When a Named Group is copied, the copied elements are no longer part of a group. They may have been copied together, but after the copying they have no relation to each other. This, to me, makes them a limited usage item. I mean, it&amp;#39;s great I have a group of these things, but that&amp;#39;s kind of all I see. I would like the ability to copy a named group and end up with another (probably incremented) named group, or at least an unnamed graphic group.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I dislike graphic groups because there is no visual cue as to what elements are in the GG, and elements can be manipulated separately (with the selection tool) even if the graphic group lock is on. I can&amp;#39;t think of how many times some unrelated element accidentally got included in a graphic group, to end up moved or rotated or otherwise manipulated in unexpected ways (because it wasn&amp;#39;t supposed to be part of a GG!).&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;There is another type of group that is not a Graphic Group nor a Named Group, and that is the type of group that creates orphan cells. This is actually the type I use most often because it is most useful to me. I can create it on the fly, it is not dependent on any lock status, and if I need to make a copy of this orphan cell group, I get another orphan cell group (still grouped). While this tool is often discouraged, I love it because of the ease of use.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;div style="clear:both;"&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</description></item><item><title>RE: What is actually a "Graphic Group"?</title><link>https://communities.bentley.com/thread/672034?ContentTypeID=1</link><pubDate>Wed, 15 Sep 2021 15:07:18 GMT</pubDate><guid isPermaLink="false">6dad98f5-dbc9-4c4d-a9ba-e9da8dc6aa8e:d9ab0c0a-d0d7-41b9-bf10-863b8db574e4</guid><dc:creator>Bob Rayner</dc:creator><description>[quote userid="5901" url="~/products/microstation/f/microstation-forum/219449/what-is-actually-a-graphic-group/671971"]I guess you are mixing up GG with NG. A &amp;quot;simple&amp;quot; GG (numbered) you can copy when GG-lock is on.[/quote]
&lt;p&gt;No. I did a simple test. Opened the Named Group dialog, created a new group, added a few elements. I then copied those elements. They all copy as a named group with graphic group lock on. With the lock off they do not copy as a group. Although as individual elements they still show as being part of a group.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;There is lots I do not know about this, new to me, function. But in it&amp;#39;s simplest form it does indeed recognize graphic group lock.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;div style="clear:both;"&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</description></item><item><title>RE: What is actually a "Graphic Group"?</title><link>https://communities.bentley.com/thread/671971?ContentTypeID=1</link><pubDate>Wed, 15 Sep 2021 10:28:34 GMT</pubDate><guid isPermaLink="false">6dad98f5-dbc9-4c4d-a9ba-e9da8dc6aa8e:5cd40c44-57e0-4b58-a07c-e3799b444bf2</guid><dc:creator>mlm</dc:creator><description>&lt;p&gt;I guess you are mixing up GG with NG. A &amp;quot;simple&amp;quot; GG (numbered) you can copy when GG-lock is on.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;A named group can not be copied.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;A named group can even get elements from a reference attached.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;So what can we do with a named group?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;If it has elements from a reference you cant move the group as a whole - obviously.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;You can copy the named group elements. But then you end up with just the single elements.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;You can create a display set from a NG, nice.... &lt;a href="https://communities.bentley.com/products/microstation/w/askinga/422/named-groups-displaysets-and-quick-sets"&gt;communities.bentley.com/.../named-groups-displaysets-and-quick-sets&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;What else? Obviously I was expecting something different,,,&lt;/p&gt;&lt;div style="clear:both;"&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</description></item><item><title>RE: What is actually a "Graphic Group"?</title><link>https://communities.bentley.com/thread/671827?ContentTypeID=1</link><pubDate>Tue, 14 Sep 2021 19:25:14 GMT</pubDate><guid isPermaLink="false">6dad98f5-dbc9-4c4d-a9ba-e9da8dc6aa8e:8acb43c8-8342-41b4-ab82-760192d04355</guid><dc:creator>Bob Rayner</dc:creator><description>&lt;p&gt;Well I learned something new today. I very occasionly utilize graphic group. So I had to mess with named groups, just to see. I created a group, added a few elements, went to copy it. With graphic group lock on it copies as a group, GG lock off it ignores the group. So that&amp;#39;s confusing. I also wonder if named groups are automatically created in any scenario (like GG does). And where&amp;#39;s the bidness to make the named group a cell. Still learning.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;div style="clear:both;"&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</description></item><item><title>RE: What is actually a "Graphic Group"?</title><link>https://communities.bentley.com/thread/671802?ContentTypeID=1</link><pubDate>Tue, 14 Sep 2021 15:54:04 GMT</pubDate><guid isPermaLink="false">6dad98f5-dbc9-4c4d-a9ba-e9da8dc6aa8e:9335124e-2861-47e2-ad6f-e94a85c43ecb</guid><dc:creator>mlm</dc:creator><description>&lt;p&gt;Well, If you have a NG say &amp;quot;Workplace&amp;quot; - desk, chair, computer etc. and try to copy it. At least last time I did that I just got separate elements. Not a NG called e.g. &amp;quot;Workplace_001&amp;quot; or something alike.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I like the capability to have active and passive members, but ...&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;What is the idea of a Group that you can not copy? Same when you try to create a cell from a NG. I guess I have filed an idea from that - (including further discussions)&amp;nbsp; Yes, you are right that this does not fit my idea of a group.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;GGs can be copied on the other hand. They are just counted forward.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;em&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp; Remember GGs and NGs are created through the same dialog...&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Regarding the history and naming I may have an idea...&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;GGs could be a &amp;quot;Loose Group&amp;quot; (thats how they behave depending if you have GG-Lock on or off) - kind of obscure though&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;NGs could be &amp;quot;Habit Group&amp;quot; or maybe &amp;quot;Subject Group&amp;quot; (as they the prominent feature to have active/passive members) - also kind of obscure&amp;nbsp; if you have not created them yourself - (they perhaps could visually better show their dependency?)&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;But they should also be able to be&amp;nbsp; put in a &amp;quot;catalog&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;library&amp;quot; and maintain their (active/passive) functionality. To reuse them.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Otherwise we have the &amp;quot;Cell&amp;quot; grouping through the &amp;quot;Grouping&amp;quot; function - or Ctrl-G - which results in an unnamed cell.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;(I stop here as this leads to nested cells etc., Shared Cells also to the Items + labeling of items (legacy Tags) and further stuff)&lt;/p&gt;
[quote userid="2473" url="~/products/microstation/f/microstation-forum/219449/what-is-actually-a-graphic-group/671791"] NG allows &amp;quot;far referencing&amp;quot;[/quote]
&lt;p&gt;I have obviously not grabbed that...&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The out-of-the-box functionality of NGs and GGs may serve a purpose if you include them in add-ons or craft specifc extensions. In pure microStation I do not see much of a benefit. (?)&lt;br /&gt;Maybe you can describe a workflow to use them in vanilla microStation?&lt;/p&gt;&lt;div style="clear:both;"&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</description></item><item><title>RE: What is actually a "Graphic Group"?</title><link>https://communities.bentley.com/thread/671791?ContentTypeID=1</link><pubDate>Tue, 14 Sep 2021 15:03:05 GMT</pubDate><guid isPermaLink="false">6dad98f5-dbc9-4c4d-a9ba-e9da8dc6aa8e:d317b4b0-a74e-4b46-819d-297563b0d06e</guid><dc:creator>Jan Šlegr</dc:creator><description>[quote userid="5901" url="~/products/microstation/f/microstation-forum/219449/what-is-actually-a-graphic-group/671720"]In effect the Named Groups are not useable in practice.[/quote]
&lt;p&gt;I strongly disagree with such general statement, especially because I know users that use NG daily.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;It does not mean that NG is not usable &lt;span style="text-decoration:underline;"&gt;&lt;em&gt;for you&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/span&gt;.&lt;/p&gt;
[quote userid="5901" url="~/products/microstation/f/microstation-forum/219449/what-is-actually-a-graphic-group/671720"]The worst is though that you &lt;strong&gt;can not copy&lt;/strong&gt; that &amp;quot;Named Group&amp;quot;[/quote]
&lt;p&gt;Similarly to Jon I do not quite understand what do you mean by &amp;quot;copy NG&amp;quot;:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;ul&gt;
&lt;li&gt;Definition of NG is copied, so I have two exactly the same definitions?&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;A content of NG is copied, so elements are duplicated?&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;/ul&gt;
[quote userid="5901" url="~/products/microstation/f/microstation-forum/219449/what-is-actually-a-graphic-group/671720"] (or create a cell from it) ( it is a longstanding request)[/quote]
&lt;p&gt;I do not recall I saw such request in ideas, but they are many of them, so maybe I missed it.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The&amp;nbsp;request sounds interesting, but is not simple, because NG allows &amp;quot;far referencing&amp;quot;, when elements in NG can be from active model, and from direct/nested references.&amp;nbsp;So more conditions have to be fulfilled to allow to create a cell from NG content.&lt;/p&gt;
[quote userid="5901" url="~/products/microstation/f/microstation-forum/219449/what-is-actually-a-graphic-group/671720"]Also - to confuse new users ? - there is the &amp;quot;Group&amp;quot; command which effectively creates an (unnamed) cell.[/quote]
&lt;p&gt;Well, it&amp;#39;s a result of history and only limited &amp;quot;good words&amp;quot; in language. Do you have any idea how one or second tool should be renamed?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Regards,&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&amp;nbsp; Jan&lt;/p&gt;&lt;div style="clear:both;"&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</description></item><item><title>RE: What is actually a "Graphic Group"?</title><link>https://communities.bentley.com/thread/671790?ContentTypeID=1</link><pubDate>Tue, 14 Sep 2021 14:50:38 GMT</pubDate><guid isPermaLink="false">6dad98f5-dbc9-4c4d-a9ba-e9da8dc6aa8e:96f505d8-f29c-4fd9-9ec4-7ecaab376100</guid><dc:creator>Jon Summers</dc:creator><description>[quote userid="5901" url="~/products/microstation/f/microstation-forum/219449/what-is-actually-a-graphic-group/671720"]You can not copy a &lt;em&gt;Named Group&lt;/em&gt;[/quote]
&lt;p&gt;Please describe the workflow when a copy of a &lt;em&gt;Named Group&lt;/em&gt; would be useful.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;ul&gt;
&lt;li&gt;Does &lt;em&gt;copy&lt;/em&gt; also copy children of that NG?&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;Does &lt;em&gt;copy&lt;/em&gt; also copy the DGN elements assigned to that NG?&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;/ul&gt;
[quote userid="5901" url="~/products/microstation/f/microstation-forum/219449/what-is-actually-a-graphic-group/671720"]You can not create a cell from  a &lt;em&gt;Named Group&lt;/em&gt;[/quote]
&lt;p&gt;I can see how that might work.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;ul&gt;
&lt;li&gt;NG name =&amp;gt; Cell Name&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;DGN elements in NG become cell components&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;What about children of the NG?&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;/ul&gt;
[quote userid="5901" url="~/products/microstation/f/microstation-forum/219449/what-is-actually-a-graphic-group/671720"] it is a longstanding request[/quote]
&lt;p&gt;Request to Bentley Systems?&amp;nbsp; We know that they tend to get lost under the carpet (your words!).&amp;nbsp; Post another Idea to make it formal.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;div style="clear:both;"&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</description></item><item><title>RE: What is actually a "Graphic Group"?</title><link>https://communities.bentley.com/thread/671787?ContentTypeID=1</link><pubDate>Tue, 14 Sep 2021 14:37:31 GMT</pubDate><guid isPermaLink="false">6dad98f5-dbc9-4c4d-a9ba-e9da8dc6aa8e:6848fd24-b216-482a-b857-ef7576bb6e44</guid><dc:creator>mlm</dc:creator><description>&lt;p&gt;The GG is sometimes &amp;quot;historically&amp;quot; used to group elements together. They can be either moved together - when the &amp;quot;GraphicGroup Lock&amp;quot; is on. Otherwise they are moved independent. It is a bit archaic and I guess not used widely because it is not straightforward to be used.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;div style="clear:both;"&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</description></item><item><title>RE: What is actually a "Graphic Group"?</title><link>https://communities.bentley.com/thread/671786?ContentTypeID=1</link><pubDate>Tue, 14 Sep 2021 14:37:01 GMT</pubDate><guid isPermaLink="false">6dad98f5-dbc9-4c4d-a9ba-e9da8dc6aa8e:b73dc591-68e1-4d5a-9f36-4ae6327229bf</guid><dc:creator>Jan Šlegr</dc:creator><description>[quote userid="1102412" url="~/products/microstation/f/microstation-forum/219449/what-is-actually-a-graphic-group/671784"]So a Note (leader + text) is precisely a Graphic Group.[/quote]
&lt;p&gt;It&amp;#39;s not quite right statement (or it&amp;#39;s lost in translation ;-)&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;ul&gt;
&lt;li&gt;Historically, there is no &amp;quot;Note element&amp;quot; available in DGN V8 format specification, so &lt;em&gt;Place Note&lt;/em&gt; tool have to create 2 independent elements: Dimension (leader) and cell with all other elements. To bring them together, GG is used. I do not like the formulation &amp;quot;they are GG&amp;quot;, in my opinion is &amp;quot;they belong to the same GG&amp;quot;, because no &amp;quot;GG element&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;GG definition&amp;quot; exists in DGN file.&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;Dimension is DGN element. Regardless how complicated the dimension is, it&amp;#39;s still one element.&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;/ul&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Regards,&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&amp;nbsp; Jan&lt;/p&gt;&lt;div style="clear:both;"&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</description></item><item><title>RE: What is actually a "Graphic Group"?</title><link>https://communities.bentley.com/thread/671784?ContentTypeID=1</link><pubDate>Tue, 14 Sep 2021 14:30:09 GMT</pubDate><guid isPermaLink="false">6dad98f5-dbc9-4c4d-a9ba-e9da8dc6aa8e:89950e2d-efce-44a0-adb0-e6992838ea42</guid><dc:creator>Joan Mart&amp;#237;nez Serra</dc:creator><description>&lt;p&gt;I have seen that a Note (&amp;quot;Place Note&amp;quot;) based on a Dimension + Text, it has the &amp;quot;Graphic Group property in its Properties palette.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;So a Note (leader + text) is precisely a Graphic Group.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;On the other hand, a Dimension has several subentities but it is not a Graphic Group.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;div style="clear:both;"&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</description></item><item><title>RE: What is actually a "Graphic Group"?</title><link>https://communities.bentley.com/thread/671720?ContentTypeID=1</link><pubDate>Tue, 14 Sep 2021 09:13:20 GMT</pubDate><guid isPermaLink="false">6dad98f5-dbc9-4c4d-a9ba-e9da8dc6aa8e:9bc33c22-d4f6-4cad-8335-7887e6d05c0f</guid><dc:creator>mlm</dc:creator><description>[quote userid="1102412" url="~/products/microstation/f/microstation-forum/219449/what-is-actually-a-graphic-group"]&lt;p&gt;I see 2 ways to create a Group in MicroStation:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;- Group&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;- Named Group.&lt;/p&gt;[/quote]
&lt;p&gt;the worst is that it is one dialog - in my view - &amp;quot;Add to Graphic Group&amp;quot; there you have to switch on the Option &amp;quot;Named Group&amp;quot; . Without you get GG, with the option an NG.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;That is confusing.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Named Groups allow dependencies and &amp;quot;active&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;passive&amp;quot; members.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The worst is though that you &lt;strong&gt;can not copy&lt;/strong&gt; that &amp;quot;Named Group&amp;quot; (or create a cell from it) ( it is a longstanding request) - In effect the Named Groups are not useable in practice.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;You can copy GGs (it increases the GG Number)&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Also - to confuse new users ? - there is the &amp;quot;Group&amp;quot; command which effectively creates an (unnamed) cell. (You can give it a name later in the properties)&lt;/p&gt;&lt;div style="clear:both;"&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</description></item><item><title>RE: What is actually a "Graphic Group"?</title><link>https://communities.bentley.com/thread/671718?ContentTypeID=1</link><pubDate>Tue, 14 Sep 2021 09:10:32 GMT</pubDate><guid isPermaLink="false">6dad98f5-dbc9-4c4d-a9ba-e9da8dc6aa8e:a06c30e4-6280-4cd6-8ab0-001639d2963e</guid><dc:creator>Jon Summers</dc:creator><description>[quote userid="5901" url="~/products/microstation/f/microstation-forum/219449/what-is-actually-a-graphic-group/671705"]Could we &amp;quot;upgrade&amp;quot; legacy GGs to NGs?[/quote]
&lt;p&gt;&lt;em&gt;Named Groups&lt;/em&gt; are supported by every API.&amp;nbsp; A VBA macro (or .NET &lt;em&gt;AddIn&lt;/em&gt; or C++ &lt;em&gt;Application&lt;/em&gt;) could be developed to created a &lt;em&gt;Named Group&lt;/em&gt; from a nominated &lt;em&gt;Graphic Group&lt;/em&gt;.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I&amp;#39;m not sure whether there would be much demand for such an &lt;a title="Dictionary.com: Arcane" href="https://www.dictionary.com/browse/arcane" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank"&gt;arcane&lt;/a&gt; tool!&lt;/p&gt;&lt;div style="clear:both;"&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</description></item><item><title>RE: What is actually a "Graphic Group"?</title><link>https://communities.bentley.com/thread/671716?ContentTypeID=1</link><pubDate>Tue, 14 Sep 2021 09:01:09 GMT</pubDate><guid isPermaLink="false">6dad98f5-dbc9-4c4d-a9ba-e9da8dc6aa8e:9ab3e262-634d-4941-a050-b138ef7cf5de</guid><dc:creator>Jan Šlegr</dc:creator><description>[quote userid="1102412" url="~/products/microstation/f/microstation-forum/219449/what-is-actually-a-graphic-group/671714"]So &amp;quot;graphic group&amp;quot; is just an internal value?[/quote]
&lt;p&gt;Yes. Every graphics element contains (in its header) information about GG. When it is 0, it does not belong to any GG.&lt;/p&gt;
[quote userid="1102412" url="~/products/microstation/f/microstation-forum/219449/what-is-actually-a-graphic-group/671714"]I understand that there is no button to create a graphic group[/quote]
&lt;p&gt;Yes, because there is nothing to be created.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;When elements are added to (new) GG, MicroStation checks what is the highest used GG number, and set GG inforamtion in the elements to be +1 higher. So, in this aspect, GG number works as a counter.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;As I wrote earlier, user tools to work with GG are limited, and GG information is even not displayed in Element properties dialog (but can be checked, when old key-in &amp;quot;analyze element&amp;quot; is used).&lt;/p&gt;
[quote userid="1102412" url="~/products/microstation/f/microstation-forum/219449/what-is-actually-a-graphic-group/671714"]and &amp;quot;create Group&amp;quot; button is no a graphic group[/quote]
&lt;p&gt;You can create Named Group only.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;With regards,&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&amp;nbsp; Jan&lt;/p&gt;&lt;div style="clear:both;"&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</description></item><item><title>RE: What is actually a "Graphic Group"?</title><link>https://communities.bentley.com/thread/671714?ContentTypeID=1</link><pubDate>Tue, 14 Sep 2021 08:56:05 GMT</pubDate><guid isPermaLink="false">6dad98f5-dbc9-4c4d-a9ba-e9da8dc6aa8e:b7132b09-a6bb-4b90-badb-5640cee030bb</guid><dc:creator>Joan Mart&amp;#237;nez Serra</dc:creator><description>&lt;p&gt;So &amp;quot;graphic group&amp;quot; is just an internal value?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I understand that there is no button to create a graphic group and &amp;quot;create Group&amp;quot; button is no a graphic group.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;div style="clear:both;"&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</description></item><item><title>RE: What is actually a "Graphic Group"?</title><link>https://communities.bentley.com/thread/671708?ContentTypeID=1</link><pubDate>Tue, 14 Sep 2021 08:43:02 GMT</pubDate><guid isPermaLink="false">6dad98f5-dbc9-4c4d-a9ba-e9da8dc6aa8e:9b212f3c-928f-4253-96e1-593e46be6ea7</guid><dc:creator>Jan Šlegr</dc:creator><description>&lt;p&gt;Hi Gerd,&lt;/p&gt;
[quote userid="5901" url="~/products/microstation/f/microstation-forum/219449/what-is-actually-a-graphic-group/671705"]Could we &amp;quot;upgrade&amp;quot; legacy GGs to NGs?[/quote]
&lt;p&gt;I do not know about such option in MicroStation.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;But I like this idea. It should not be very complicated (based on GG number to create NG a drop GG). What I am not sure about, whether any tool still depends mandatory on GG, so to drop GG invalidates it.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Regards,&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&amp;nbsp; Jan&lt;/p&gt;&lt;div style="clear:both;"&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</description></item></channel></rss>