Scaling

create a sub model and self ref the master model and attach it at a scale of  1/2"= 12 " or 1:24  ( ie 1"=24" ) or create a saved view of the master model and attach that as a ref  with 1:24 scale in the ref manager. . btw  what units is your design file in? We are metric here Australia so scaling is really easy....

How are you using your title block or sheet frame paper outline will also affect what steps to do?

Hi Lorys,

I have been trying the for weeks and cant get the sheet model to work can you help me with this?

Thankstest1customPreliminary_D_2D-backup.dgn

Post a screenshot of your DGN showing which part of the drawing should be visible on the sheet

Never mind, watch this to get the idea. I don't normally have 'murican' sheet sizes or scales in my config but I added the ANSI B and 1/2" = 1'-0" for this test. I don't think your proposed scale is correct, as you can see, you would not be able to fit a titleblock on the sheet. I just picked part of the DGN file which would be closest to fit the sheet at the scale, made a saved view (as I always do) and attached that as a reference file. Nothing difficult about it at all.

Be sure to right-click on the animation below, and Open in New Tab to view full size

Hello,

Thanks for the video I will study this more and if I have more problems do you mind if i can ask you? Can you add the ansi b border?

I cant enlarge your video with chrome or window explorer it only allow to open a image in a new tap also is there away to pause this it is super fast.

. 

Yes feel free although there are others who will help you out as well.

Do you not have a workspace that is set up with all the Sheet sizes and scales that you need?

If you have a custom workspace then these files may be already customised and exist in a different location. Interogate the variables to determine where they are located.

• Sheet sizes : Are stored (by default) in a file called sheetsizes.def set by the variable MS_CUSTOMSHEETSIZEDEF . The file is normally found in C:\ProgramData\Bentley\MicroStation V8i (SELECTseries)\WorkSpace\System\data\sheetsizes.def
• Scales : are configured in a file called scales.def set by the variable MS_CUSTOMSCALEDEF . The file is normally found in C:\ProgramData\Bentley\MicroStation V8i (SELECTseries)\WorkSpace\System\data\scales.def

My sheetsizes.def looks like this (you can see most of the imperial stuff is commented out by the # symbol (i.e. makes it not visible to chose) aside from the ANSI B which I added for your test case)

#   Name              		 Units           Height          Width    TopMargin   LeftMargin  BottomMargin    RightMargin
#Roll paper sizes.
#ANSI A ;                          Inch;          8.5;            11;      0.00;       0.00;       0.00;           0.00;
ANSI B ;                          Inch;          11;             17;      0.00;       0.00;       0.00;           0.00;
#ANSI C ;                          inch;          17;             22;      0.00;       0.00;       0.00;           0.00;
#ANSI D ;                          inch;          22;             34;      0.00;       0.00;       0.00;           0.00;
#ANSI E ;                          inch;          34;             44;      0.00;       0.00;       0.00;           0.00;

# Architectural Sizes
#Arch A ;                        Inches;           9;             12;      0.00;       0.00;       0.00;           0.00;
#Arch B ;                        Inches;          12;             18;      0.00;       0.00;       0.00;           0.00;
#Arch C ;                        Inches;          18;             24;      0.00;       0.00;       0.00;           0.00;
#Arch D ;                        inches;          24;             36;      0.00;       0.00;       0.00;           0.00;
#Arch E ;                        inches;          36;             48;      0.00;       0.00;       0.00;           0.00;
#Arch E1 ;                       inches;          30;             42;      0.00;       0.00;       0.00;           0.00;

ISO A0 ;	            millimeter;	        841;           1189;      0.00;       0.00;       0.00;           0.00;
ISO A1 ;	            millimeter;	        594;	        841;      0.00;       0.00;       0.00;           0.00;
ISO A2 ;	            millimeter;	        420;	        594;      0.00;       0.00;       0.00;           0.00;
ISO A3 ;	            millimeter;	        297;	        420;      0.00;       0.00;       0.00;           0.00;
ISO A4 ;	            millimeter;	        210;            297;      0.00;       0.00;       0.00;           0.00;
ISO A3 (V) ;	            millimeter;	        420;	        297;      0.00;       0.00;       0.00;           0.00;
ISO A4 (V) ;	            millimeter;	        297;            210;      0.00;       0.00;       0.00;           0.00;

My Scales.def looks like this (I re-added the bottom scale for your test otherwise it only contains metric scales):

#-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
#
# MicroStation Standard Scale Examples
#
#   Name        Scale      System
Full Size 1=1 ;     1:1;         1,2,3  # Full Size 1=1
1:2 ;     2:1;         2      # 1:2
1:5 ;     5:1;         2      # 1:5
1:10 ;     10:1;        2      # 1:10
1:20 ;     20:1;        2      # 1:20
1:25 ;     25:1;        2      # 1:25
1:50 ;     50:1;        2      # 1:50
1:100 ;     100:1;       2      # 1:100
1:200 ;     200:1;       2      # 1:200
1:250 ;     250:1;       2      # 1:250
1:500 ;     500:1;       2      # 1:500
1:1000 ;     1000:1;      2      # 1:1000
1:1250 ;     1250:1;      2      # 1:1250

1/2"=1'-0";     24:1

That should be enough to get you sorted.

When I need scaled details for a sheet, I create a separate design model for my desired scale. In your case I would create a 1/2" = 1'-0" scale model, and I would go into the Model Properties to set the Annotation Scale to 1/2" = 1'-0". I make sure to turn the Annotation Scale Lock ON, so that the annotation scale controls my notes and dimensions (which are defined by default for 1:1). The Annotation Scale will manage the text and dimension sizes so that I do not have to worry about making any changes.

Now I draw my detail at "real size" (1:1) and I annotate it as desired.

I create a blank sheet drawing and set that model property annotation scale to 1:1. I attach my sheet border (which is usually either a cell or a reference file) at 1:1 (true size), and I can go back to the sheet model properties to select the matching sheet size. If my border is a reference, I can even tell MicroStation to use that for my sheet boundary definition.

Now I can attach my detail, and Microstation will use both the detail and the sheet annotation scale to apply the correct scale factor.

The nice thing about this is, if I need to add a 3/4" scale detail to me sheet, I can create another design model and set that annotation scale to 3/4", draw to true size and annotate, and it will also scale correctly onto the sheet.

When I need scaled details for a sheet, I create a separate design model for my desired scale. In your case I would create a 1/2" = 1'-0" scale model, and I would go into the Model Properties to set the Annotation Scale to 1/2" = 1'-0". I make sure to turn the Annotation Scale Lock ON, so that the annotation scale controls my notes and dimensions (which are defined by default for 1:1). The Annotation Scale will manage the text and dimension sizes so that I do not have to worry about making any changes.

Now I draw my detail at "real size" (1:1) and I annotate it as desired.

I create a blank sheet drawing and set that model property annotation scale to 1:1. I attach my sheet border (which is usually either a cell or a reference file) at 1:1 (true size), and I can go back to the sheet model properties to select the matching sheet size. If my border is a reference, I can even tell MicroStation to use that for my sheet boundary definition.

Now I can attach my detail, and Microstation will use both the detail and the sheet annotation scale to apply the correct scale factor.

The nice thing about this is, if I need to add a 3/4" scale detail to me sheet, I can create another design model and set that annotation scale to 3/4", draw to true size and annotate, and it will also scale correctly onto the sheet.

Agree 98% with Mary's steps.
Instead of creating a second DESIGN MODEL, I suggest this is the purpose of the DRAWING MODEL, i.e. a place to annotate drawing elements.

Bonus: DRAWING MODELs are always 2D and therefore annotation elements will always be viewed correctly on 3D objects.

Then REFERENCE the DRAWING MODEL into the SHEET MODEL to build your border.

My workflow:
Model Name = Model Type = Description of content
M01 = DESIGN MODEL = Design at 1:1

D01 = DRAWING MODEL = References M01 with added Annotations (Dims, Leaders, 2D elements overlayed on the Design, etc.) At 1:1 (using annotation scale, or scaled with annotations 1:1)

S01 = SHEET MODEL = Drawing Borders, Title Text and Revision text, Notes, Legends, Key Plans etc.

Hi MaryB,

I currently am using microstation ss3 ver 8.11.09.578 and am trying to create a sheet model based on your steps.

I currently have two dgn drawing one which is the title block with a scale of 1:1 and the other which is a title block 24”x36” 1:1.

and 11"x27" 1:1 and the layout which is 1:1.

What I want is a scale of 1/8=1'-0 for the 11"x17" and a 1/2"1"-0" for the 24"x36" this should cover most of the paper and some room for dimension and text.

24x36landscape.dgn

0550.11x17.dgn1015701timecustomPreliminary_D_2Dnew.dgn 

I tried following your step but for some reason I can not reference the layout into the title block.

I chose a seed file but no georeferenced is need for these drawings. Maybe I need to set the drawing to 0,0,0 I not sure. t

Can you get this to work for me I tried my best time to ask a expert.

Please let me know if additional information is needed.

Thanks

Hi MaryB,

After trying to follow your steps I can not reference the scaled drawing to the title block. For the latest drawings and a clearer explanation of what I want  please go to my post to Loyrs Sun Oct 17 2021 5:53 AM

Thanks

OK, let's begin with the fact that your 24" x 36" border is NOT 1:1 (as in 1" = 1"). That border is 1" = 1'-0". While we can work with that, it is an important distinction that introduces a factor of 12 into your calculations. This could be part of the issue.

Scaling from 1" = 1" to 1/2" = 1'-0" would introduce a scale factor of 1:24 (as in 1'-0" divided by 1/2" equals 24).

Since you are referencing this detail into two different borders at two different scales, you will not be able to use the annotation scale trick I use. That means you will have to manage the scaling manually, which still is not as hard as it sounds. Divide the right side of the scale equation by the left side of the equation, and set your scale to 1:number.

The default Bentley scales are based on details AND borders that are drawn 1:1, or 1" = 1". When you have a border file drawn at some other scale, you may need to do the calculations by hand.

Hello,

First of thanks for your help I am really a autodesk c3d user and setting this up in MicroStation V8i (SELECT series  3) - Version 08.11.09.578 is a little difficult so thanks for your help.

Ok, so if I understand correctly for the title block 24"x36" at a scale of 1/2"=1-0" I would need to have a scale factor of 24 and for the title block of 1/8"=1'-0" I would need a scale factor of 96.

Sorry I don't understand the part of the annotation the text so can you show me the steps for this for the 24"x36" and 11"x27" title block..

Thanks