Scaling

create a sub model and self ref the master model and attach it at a scale of  1/2"= 12 " or 1:24  ( ie 1"=24" ) or create a saved view of the master model and attach that as a ref  with 1:24 scale in the ref manager. . btw  what units is your design file in? We are metric here Australia so scaling is really easy....

How are you using your title block or sheet frame paper outline will also affect what steps to do?

Hi Lorys,

I have been trying the for weeks and cant get the sheet model to work can you help me with this?

Thankstest1customPreliminary_D_2D-backup.dgn

Yep Barry was correct your model space drawing is too big to fit the entire drawing at 1:24 or 1/2"=1' on a 11"X 7" sheet

I double checked by measuring inside your model top to bottom approx 1500 ft  so a reduction of 1:24   not be enough of a reduction

I had to attach it 1:1 and set the sheet annotation scale  to 1" is to 100' or a scale of 1:1200  see print dialog...(or about 50 times smaller than 1:24) to fit the entire drawing  plane FYI there was a stray circle  that fit view made it even bigger ... I made it portrait rather than rotate the ref was easier for me...

if you only  wanted a portion for enlarged detail then 1/2"to 1 ft or 1:24 annotation scale  would make the drawing  look bigger but only cover a smaller area  you would need to define a clip boundary shape similar to acaders use a view port.. doing saved view of a specific area sort of creates a view port.. I hate imperial units did I mention that?  so hard to work out text sizes without Leroy tables .. in metric we have mm to m so its just ratios of 1:1000 xs the scale you want  and if you annotation scale  you just choose text size  and annotation scale does the rest....

2364.test1customPreliminary_D_2D-backup.dgn

I have resent  your file after I have played with it. .your text style  looks like it was metric  3 units? or 3 ft ?  not sure your usa text heights and annotation scale....

Agree 98% with Mary's steps.
Instead of creating a second DESIGN MODEL, I suggest this is the purpose of the DRAWING MODEL, i.e. a place to annotate drawing elements.

Bonus: DRAWING MODELs are always 2D and therefore annotation elements will always be viewed correctly on 3D objects.

Then REFERENCE the DRAWING MODEL into the SHEET MODEL to build your border.

My workflow:
Model Name = Model Type = Description of content
M01 = DESIGN MODEL = Design at 1:1

D01 = DRAWING MODEL = References M01 with added Annotations (Dims, Leaders, 2D elements overlayed on the Design, etc.) At 1:1 (using annotation scale, or scaled with annotations 1:1)

S01 = SHEET MODEL = Drawing Borders, Title Text and Revision text, Notes, Legends, Key Plans etc.

Hi,

Thanks

Hi  Lorys,

Appreciate your help to this I still trying to figure all this out, The dgn drawing you provided me with the dimension shown is incorrect. If you take those numbers and divide it by 24 those would be the correct field measurements. 

Once we get that then we need to pick the correct English architect scale to fit on a 11"x17" paper I think a 1/8"=1'-0"

Thanks

Hi MaryB,

I currently am using microstation ss3 ver 8.11.09.578 and am trying to create a sheet model based on your steps.

I currently have two dgn drawing one which is the title block with a scale of 1:1 and the other which is a title block 24”x36” 1:1.

and 11"x27" 1:1 and the layout which is 1:1.

What I want is a scale of 1/8=1'-0 for the 11"x17" and a 1/2"1"-0" for the 24"x36" this should cover most of the paper and some room for dimension and text.

24x36landscape.dgn

0550.11x17.dgn1015701timecustomPreliminary_D_2Dnew.dgn 

I tried following your step but for some reason I can not reference the layout into the title block.

I chose a seed file but no georeferenced is need for these drawings. Maybe I need to set the drawing to 0,0,0 I not sure. t

Can you get this to work for me I tried my best time to ask a expert.

Please let me know if additional information is needed.

Thanks

Hi MaryB,

I currently am using microstation ss3 ver 8.11.09.578 and am trying to create a sheet model based on your steps.

I currently have two dgn drawing one which is the title block with a scale of 1:1 and the other which is a title block 24”x36” 1:1.

and 11"x27" 1:1 and the layout which is 1:1.

What I want is a scale of 1/8=1'-0 for the 11"x17" and a 1/2"1"-0" for the 24"x36" this should cover most of the paper and some room for dimension and text.

24x36landscape.dgn

0550.11x17.dgn1015701timecustomPreliminary_D_2Dnew.dgn 

I tried following your step but for some reason I can not reference the layout into the title block.

I chose a seed file but no georeferenced is need for these drawings. Maybe I need to set the drawing to 0,0,0 I not sure. t

Can you get this to work for me I tried my best time to ask a expert.

Please let me know if additional information is needed.

Thanks

OK, let's begin with the fact that your 24" x 36" border is NOT 1:1 (as in 1" = 1"). That border is 1" = 1'-0". While we can work with that, it is an important distinction that introduces a factor of 12 into your calculations. This could be part of the issue.

Scaling from 1" = 1" to 1/2" = 1'-0" would introduce a scale factor of 1:24 (as in 1'-0" divided by 1/2" equals 24).

Since you are referencing this detail into two different borders at two different scales, you will not be able to use the annotation scale trick I use. That means you will have to manage the scaling manually, which still is not as hard as it sounds. Divide the right side of the scale equation by the left side of the equation, and set your scale to 1:number.

The default Bentley scales are based on details AND borders that are drawn 1:1, or 1" = 1". When you have a border file drawn at some other scale, you may need to do the calculations by hand.

Hello,

First of thanks for your help I am really a autodesk c3d user and setting this up in MicroStation V8i (SELECT series  3) - Version 08.11.09.578 is a little difficult so thanks for your help.

Ok, so if I understand correctly for the title block 24"x36" at a scale of 1/2"=1-0" I would need to have a scale factor of 24 and for the title block of 1/8"=1'-0" I would need a scale factor of 96.

Sorry I don't understand the part of the annotation the text so can you show me the steps for this for the 24"x36" and 11"x27" title block..

Thanks

Yes, you are right. You will scale your detail reference to 1:24 for your 1/2" = 1'-0" scale onto the 11"x17", and you will scale the same detail to 1:96 for your 1/8" = 1'-0" scale onto the 24"x36".

Annotation Scale is a model property that you can set in each and every model. This setting allows MicroStation to  manage text/dimension sizes, as well as detail scaling onto sheets. In this case, it may require a bit of back and forth, but once you get an understanding of how it works, it's pretty easy.

Let's start with your borders. As noted, these borders are not 1:1 (1" = 1"), they are 1" = 1'-0". That's fine, but we need to know that. In your border model, open the Models dialog, select the model with your border in it. Go to the Properties, and you will see "Annotation Scale". Set that to 1" = 1'-0". Now MicroStation knows what scale you will be plotting your border.

Go back to your detail drawing. We are going to use Rod's suggestion to create Drawing Models to better manage the fact that this is going to show up on several different sheets. Go to the Models dialog, and create a new "Drawing" model; we'll use this for your 1/2" scale detail. In that drawing model, attach your design at a scale of 1:1. Now (back to the Models dialog) set your annotation scale to 1/2" = 1'-0". Make sure that the Annotation Lock is set on in the Locks dialog (you can find that by typing "locks" into the little help-type window at the upper right of your screen). Now, all of your text and dimensions should come in at the proper size to show correctly on your border.

Go back to your border file. Attach your newly created Drawing model from your design drawing as a reference, and use the "interactive" option so that we can adjust some settings. The first is to make sure that you are attaching the drawing model, not the design model. Next, there is an option in the attachment settings dialog to select/set your reference scale. This will default to the annotation scale of the drawing model. This is where it can get a little confusing - you want to actually select the scale of your border model (in this case, 1" = 1'-0"). When you do that, you will see the scale factor (1:##) change. The last setting is that we are attaching this drawing model with Live Nesting to a depth of 1.

There are a bunch of other reference settings, but we will work with these at the moment.

Now your drawing is referenced onto your border. You can move it, rotate it - do what you need to get it properly located onto your border.

Steve,

As Mary has correctly noted, your titleblock is drawn in feet and you would save yourself a lot of hassle by scaling them down to their correct inches equivalent in your titleblock seed file(s). It doesn't matter if you draw your designs in feet, but your titleblock's really should match the actual paper size. Scaling titleblocks is something that used to be done long ago before the introductions of sheet models when some users preferred to reference their designs @ 1:1 so the titleblock had to be upscaled by the drawings scale-factor.

Is there any reason why they are drawn in Feet or is it just an unintended mistake?

Hi MaryB,

I have been still trying numerous of times to get this to work based on your explanation. I would appreciate if you can fix this for me.

If something is not clear can you let me know also what is the latest 1"=1' I sent you I want to be sure this is correct.

End result I would like a 1/2"=1'-0" which is a 24"x36" and a 1/8"=1-0' 11"x17" with the title block

Thanks