[SS10] Array along path into Graphic Group?

RE: [SS10] Array along path into Graphic Group?

Bob Rayner — Wed, 09 Feb 2022 19:48:57 GMT

I've found using everything WYSIWYG simplifies things. The only exception is line weights and I'm working on that. Like most, I occasionally get dwg files I need to incorporate into my projects. So I must either change the level definitions or use a pen table or pltcfg to translate weights. With no universal standards, this can take time. For me simpler is always better. Also have noticed many documents now only get looked at on a screen, not plotted. The only downside is all the stuff on your screens is black, for really complex drawings it may be necessary to use Level Symbology to aid the visual.

RE: [SS10] Array along path into Graphic Group?

Barry Lothian — Wed, 09 Feb 2022 19:04:11 GMT

[quote userid="2436" url="~/products/microstation/f/microstation-forum/225538/ss10-array-along-path-into-graphic-group/695696"]Well, when you have access to such advanced attributes as "Line Weight"...[/quote]

Oh indeed!

IF Lineweight actually worked as true representation of thickness, I would be inclined to agree, however, its actual implementation is (how can I phrase it politely?), poor.

As much as I hate AutoCAD, Line weight/thickness is one aspect which AutoDesk have been superior over Bentley, for years.

I discovered this video a couple of years ago and even though it demonstrates AutoCAD, I find it a great watch. It's made by an American Architect, and though its full of weird terminology (at least, to those in the UK - looking at you, poche!), his videos are very stylish, he has a pleasant narration voice and I really like the guy's presentation of drawings (the coloured annotation style is quite unusual, but I like it).

I recommend you watch it all, but at roughly 3:38, you can see how the other side has Lineweight working, compared to what we have.

https://youtu.be/HEo0NqYputQ

barbaric indeed....

RE: [SS10] Array along path into Graphic Group?

MaryB — Wed, 09 Feb 2022 18:19:27 GMT

Well, when you have access to such advanced attributes as "Line Weight"...

RE: [SS10] Array along path into Graphic Group?

Barry Lothian — Wed, 09 Feb 2022 18:00:52 GMT

[quote userid="340847" url="~/products/microstation/f/microstation-forum/225538/ss10-array-along-path-into-graphic-group/695451"]They still use the barbaric color for pen weight standard[/quote]

Well this made me laugh. How exactly is using Colour to represent Lineweight, barbaric?

RE: [SS10] Array along path into Graphic Group?

Barry Lothian — Wed, 09 Feb 2022 10:34:20 GMT

Hi Mary, I'm just getting back to this topic.

It looks like you've got a solution using linestyles, which is great.

[quote userid="2436" url="~/products/microstation/f/microstation-forum/225538/ss10-array-along-path-into-graphic-group/695398"]I am going to have dozens and dozens of runs of barrels, and coming up with names for all of them is extra work I don't care about. [/quote]

Given that you were originally looking to use Graphic Groups (which don't have names, just a number) why would you need to introduce specific naming conventions for each run of barrels? Why not something simple like 'Mary's Barrels'? As Jon mentioned, you could also nest Named Groups using Using a Named Group Hierarchy. Individual runs of barrels can be named (e.g. MB1, MB2 etc...) or you don't have to name them and just leave each run as Orphan Cells (regular unnamed groups) if you prefer, but both could reside within a Parent/Master Named Group.

The Named Group dialog gives you the granular control of the runs, or overall group, should you need it.

Personally, I wouldn't use a linestyle for this type of thing; too much faffing around with the line element which always has the potential for barrels moving if vertices are added/removed/adjusted. My preference would be to eliminate that and do as you originally intimated, by making each barrel is its own object i.e. circle, cell etc... with its own origin at real-world coordinates.

I know you have dabbled in VBA occasionally, I believe a simple solution could be written where you could:

On a UserForm, define a circle radius/diameter, or browse and set the Active Cell
Specify the spacing of the barrels
Select an element Line/Linestring/Complex Chain etc... for the barrel path, the start or end point likely be the centre of the 1st barrel, but I guess an offset could be provided
Specify a Named Group Name
Activate the command

The barrels would then be spaced along the element using the PointAtDistance Method, and automatically be added to the named group of your choice.

Of course, this is just my £0.02 worth, but if you are happy with your linestyle solution, then good luck with it.

RE: [SS10] Array along path into Graphic Group?

Ron Jones — Wed, 09 Feb 2022 01:05:59 GMT

Mary,

I created a simple 2D line style (attached below) that places a 2 foot circle at the end points and each vertex of a linesting. You just need to use the Facet Curve command to re-facet the linestring using any Chord Length you desire.

communities.bentley.com/.../3125.BarrelStyle.zip

communities.bentley.com/.../1300.Barrel-style-Project.mp4

RE: [SS10] Array along path into Graphic Group?

Bob Rayner — Tue, 08 Feb 2022 22:01:19 GMT

Maybe not helpful, but I placed a lot of barrels back in the day, I created a custom linestyle for the task. It's not like the contractor will use the exact depiction anyway. Coincidentally I was drafting per ODOT specs, before (and after) they published their CAD standards. They still use the barbaric color for pen weight standard, but you'll still be able to use their resource. They also have lots of other goodies, the sign library is quite a time saver.

RE: [SS10] Array along path into Graphic Group?

MaryB — Tue, 08 Feb 2022 19:44:55 GMT

Nice!!!

I'll have to add that RSC to our office library, so everyone has it. Thank you!

RE: [SS10] Array along path into Graphic Group?

Jon Summers — Tue, 08 Feb 2022 18:01:18 GMT

[quote userid="2436" url="~/products/microstation/f/microstation-forum/225538/ss10-array-along-path-into-graphic-group"]I'm still leery of them because there is no visual clue when an element is a member of a GG[/quote][quote userid="2436" url="~/products/microstation/f/microstation-forum/225538/ss10-array-along-path-into-graphic-group/695398"]And a Named Group is little more than a graphic group with extra work[/quote]

It's not just a little more. As you've noted, you can have multiple Named Groups, and groups can be nested. A legacy GG is just a set of DGN elements having the same non-zero number.

The Named Groups Dialog gives you information about all Named Groups. It provides tools that work with groups.

But I can see that we have more work to do to convince you.

RE: [SS10] Array along path into Graphic Group?

Matthew Eiben — Tue, 08 Feb 2022 17:49:02 GMT

Mary,

Ohio DOT has custom 2D linestyles for different drum spacings. I've attached the .rsc file if you want to use them.

communities.bentley.com/.../ODOT_5F00_Linestyles.rsc

RE: [SS10] Array along path into Graphic Group?

Rod Wing — Tue, 08 Feb 2022 17:37:11 GMT

You can think of a Named Group as a saved selection set. There is an option in a Named Group that if you select one member, all of the members are selected. No messing around with the GG lock.

RE: [SS10] Array along path into Graphic Group?

MaryB — Tue, 08 Feb 2022 17:35:35 GMT

OK, there isn't a way to make managing all these barrels this any easier. I suspected as much, but it was worth asking.

I do know I can select anything I want in my graphic group. I really don't know the benefits of a Named Group. The few times I have tried them, they didn't seem any better than regular GGs, just a fancier interface and an actual name.

RE: [SS10] Array along path into Graphic Group?

MaryB — Tue, 08 Feb 2022 17:23:46 GMT

Those would be nice, but I actually do not need 3D - these are 2D representative plans, and will be for probably another decade at this rate. I'm not certain that would work anyways, because depending on speed, my barrels would need different spacing. I'd either have to make a linestyle for every possible spacing, or my barrels would shrink as I scaled the linestyle up or down (which is where I am today).

I am looking forward to this day, but I am afraid today is not it.

RE: [SS10] Array along path into Graphic Group?

Rod Wing — Tue, 08 Feb 2022 17:01:44 GMT

I agree with Barry Lothian, there isn't a way to make them associative.

To add elements to a GG quickly just use the Element Selection tool to select all of the elements you want in the group, then use the Add to Graphic Group tool to add them all at once.

When the Graphic Group Lock is turned on the element popup information will display the GG number the element belongs to.

I also second Barry on the use of Named Groups over Graphic Groups. True you have to name them, but they do add functionality and flexibility over Graphic Groups.

RE: [SS10] Array along path into Graphic Group?

Ron Jones — Tue, 08 Feb 2022 16:09:37 GMT

Hi Mary,

It sounds like a 3D line style would be a good solution.

Here's a blog post talking about them and it includes some example 3D custom line styles.

Regards,
Ron

RE: [SS10] Array along path into Graphic Group?

Barry Lothian — Tue, 08 Feb 2022 15:30:35 GMT

I’m not familiar with these barrels, how do they appear in a model?

RE: [SS10] Array along path into Graphic Group?

MaryB — Tue, 08 Feb 2022 15:12:34 GMT

Actually, named groups would be a pain. I am going to have dozens and dozens of runs of barrels, and coming up with names for all of them is extra work I don't care about. And a Named Group is little more than a graphic group with extra work, for all I can tell.

The only reason I was thinking of graphic groups (if there was a was to do that automatically) is that, when plans change, selecting and deleting all of the barrels in that area is tedious. Often, a few get missed here and there, so we have random barrels scattered about. If all of the barrels for a particular line of pavement marking were grouped together, they could be easily deleted when that line is changed. But I don't care about naming them; I can't even think of a workable naming scheme.

The crux of this is that I was hoping it were something that could be done somewhat automatically. Having to select every barrel on any particular run, for every run that I need to do, to add it to any kind of group for future management is additional work.

Placing and maintaining barrels is always tedious. My DOT has a custom linestyle for barrels, but they only come at one of two spacings, neither of which is appropriate for an urban job. Scaling the linestyle down to my spacing also scales down the size of the barrel points, which is less than ideal. Not to mention, the linestyle is just a little whacked. I believe this may be an issue with custom linestyles with points and no "lines", but I do not only get points where I want them, I get points at other, apparently random, locations, and arcs do not always display as I would expect them to. Or it could just be a poorly designed linestyle. My DOT does a reasonably good job, but everything is supplied as is, and a lot of it is a conglomeration of resources collected together by people who have neither the time nor the budget to sort through it all and completely standardize everything.

When I talk about barrel runs, I am talking about the barrels along any particular stretch of line from "here" to "there". Eastbound white line between Shortridge Rd. and Franklin Rd. would have a run of barrels. Westbound yellow line from Shortridge to Franklin would have another run. Channelizing one lane for Berkley Ave. would be another one or two runs. some are long stretches, others are shorter, more specific to an isolated traffic pattern. Along Path has been a lifesaver for placing them, but I was hoping there was some easy way to manage them in any way after placement, instead of having to keep track of thousands of barrels individually.

I do have ORD, if there are tools in CONNECT that can make this happen. We aren't using it for design, but I've been known to pop in when I need a specific tool to get a job done.

RE: [SS10] Array along path into Graphic Group?

Barry Lothian — Tue, 08 Feb 2022 14:28:30 GMT

Hi Mary,

Associative I believe isn't possible. Not sure why you want to use Graphic Groups, going from what you say, Named Groups sounds more like it would be useful to you