CE U17 Place Table tool - THEY MADE IT WORSE?????

How is this even possible. I am working on setting up tables for use on our projects. I have been experimenting with the various options to figure what works & what does not. Using CE 16.3 I was having an issue with the Import from File (Excel). In CE 16.3 I have a seed table created with the appropriate column headers and a title. Then I have several empty rows.

Using the Place Empty table the inserted table looks like this (seed table name is PointList). This seed table contains the correct formatting for the rows, columns & cells.

Placing another table and selecting From File I select the seed table. Then I select the Excel file, which only contains data that should populate the body of the table (no title or column headers).

When I place the table, the first row of data is inserted into the 3rd row of the table overwriting the Northing & Easting column headers. 

There is no solution for this but, I did find a forum post describing this same issue.

Talking with a colleague earlier today, they mentioned that the table tool had some updates in CE 17 so I thought I would see if my table would work in there.

WOW! is about all I can say. Unless I am missing something, they broke this tool's limited functionality.

In CE 17 I selected the Place Table tool and selected From File once again. With this version you cannot even pick a table seed. You can only select a Table Style.

Table Style???? What's that? No surprise here, looking at the Help Documentation the only information provided is

The Ribbon tool group they reference does not contain this tool. You need to select a table that was already placed and formatted. Once you select an existing table in the file the Layout tab becomes visible and contains the Save Style tool.

So I placed my PointList tabled seed, selected it and used the Save Style tool. Going back to the Place Table tool & selecting From File the Style I saved (just named it Style1) is in the list of Table Styles. So I set that style, selected my Excel file and placed the table in my file. I had to chuckle in dismay when I saw the result

The table is placed on the correct level but, the color, weight & style are all 0. Notice there are no grid lines and the title row & column header rows are non-existent as well. Ok, select the the new table and check the properties dialog. Looking at the General section the Color Style & weight of the table are not set bylevel, even though the original table was set that way. Attempting to change those settings, only the color attribute changed.

For the Text Styles section the Default Text Color & Weight were set to From Table, even though the original table was set to use Color 0 & Weight 3. Trying to change those settings failed as well. Going to the Layout tab and trying to turn the Borders on fails as well.

Anyone else noticing these issues with Place Tables in CE 17?

Parents
  • I had to chuckle in dismay

    The Table tools have always been dodgy.  It's disappointing to read that their usefulness is worsening rather than improving.

    β Testing

    What's puzzling is why, as others such as  have asked many times, Bentley Systems don't offer new or changed functionality or new or changed tools to the community for β-testing (beta-testing). Then stuff like your experience could be caught before it escapes into a released product.

     
    Regards, Jon Summers
    LA Solutions

  • Hi,

    The yellow check & black dot in the icon for functionality means that its either limited access or general access which means its for testing and feedback to the team such that we can review the feed back and make improvements and fix issues. If the icon is not directly available in the product its probably a limited access feature. Users interested in the feature can request the token to test the functionality. This is what we have been doing for quite some time now.  

    Once that is removed from the icon it is a commercial release feature, i.e. ready for commercial use and not just for testing. From what I can see Table Styles are a limited access feature. 

    Was the feature aspect token requested for table styles so that the icon would appear and the functionality be tested ?

    The team would welcome feedback to help improve the functionality or fix any issues which are found.

    From my experience beta cycles take to long, where every piece of functionality has to be ready at the same time to form a beta release. Then everything has to be reviewed, improved tested again by the same time to make another beta or a release. This drags the cycle for a release. Feature aspects and the Limited Access, General Availability, Commercial Release stages allow different pieces of functionality to be tested and reviewed on independent timescales which dont delay releases.

    HTH

    Paul



  • Was the feature aspect token requested for table styles?

    This post is the first time that I've seen table style.  I can't see it in MicroStation help.  Is table style a synonym for table seed?

    I've commented in this Forum, years ago, on the misbehaviour of tables and the use of table seeds.  Was Bug 659892 ever resolved?

     
    Regards, Jon Summers
    LA Solutions

  • The yellow check & black dot in the icon for functionality means that its either limited access or general access

    Well aware of the Technology Preview aspect. That does not change the fact that the Place Table tool is now useless. The only part of the Place Table tool that is a Tech preview is the Sheet Style addition. With that addition the ability to select a Table Seed was removed from the From File import. Importing the data yields completely useless data because you cannot modify the data. One addition should not render a pre-existing tool useless.

    From my experience beta cycles take to long

    Everyone has been complaining about this for years!

    Was the feature aspect token requested for table styles so that the icon would appear and the functionality be tested ?

    No, I never saw anything that says "if you want to attempt to use this tool, make a request". I've never had to do that with other tech previews. The Help document makes no mention of it either.

    Even if I do need to request some sort of token to access the new functionality the other aspects of the tool should not be dependent on that token.

    The team would welcome feedback to help improve the functionality or fix any issues which are found

    In how many years???? Many user reported bugs are not addressed for a long time, if ever!

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  • This post is the first time that I've seen table style.  I can't see it in MicroStation help.  Is table style a synonym for table seed?

    The Table Style does not reside in the same .dgnlib as the Table Seeds. There is no mention if Table Styles are stored in a .dgnlib. My guess is they are not but, I have not looked into it any further. Too dismayed at the time to really care.

    Microstation CONNECT - 10.17.2.61

    ORD - 2021 R1 10.10.1.3

    ORD 2022 R1.1 - 10.11.3.2

    ORD 2022 R3 -  10.12.2.4

    Microstation v8i SS 10 - 08.11.09.919

    Power InRoads v8i - 08.11.09.615

    ProjectWise - 10.0.3.453

  • From my experience beta cycles take to long

    From our experience, NOT beta testing has been taking too long. There are so many bugs and regressions that the software still cannot be expected to work reliably between versions (as noted here) or to be corrected from one version to the next (or the next or the next).

    What In-house testing does Bentley do? You can't tell me that you release products without going through them in house...can you? I can perhaps understand if Bentley doesn't want the overhead of a fully organized beta testing program, but SOMEONE needs to be testing your product to ensure it works. The programmers should not be working in a vacuum, and there should be some team somehow putting the software through its paces before release.

    MaryB

    Power GeoPak 08.11.09.918
    Power InRoads 08.11.09.918
    OpenRoads Designer 2021 R2

        

Reply
  • From my experience beta cycles take to long

    From our experience, NOT beta testing has been taking too long. There are so many bugs and regressions that the software still cannot be expected to work reliably between versions (as noted here) or to be corrected from one version to the next (or the next or the next).

    What In-house testing does Bentley do? You can't tell me that you release products without going through them in house...can you? I can perhaps understand if Bentley doesn't want the overhead of a fully organized beta testing program, but SOMEONE needs to be testing your product to ensure it works. The programmers should not be working in a vacuum, and there should be some team somehow putting the software through its paces before release.

    MaryB

    Power GeoPak 08.11.09.918
    Power InRoads 08.11.09.918
    OpenRoads Designer 2021 R2

        

Children
  • You hear a lot of about unit testing, and how it is abused.

    Regression: I suspect that this is a bit tedious but the minimum would be a defined minimum test of the basics. User generates report. Step through all the combinations for the base use case. Regardless of whether they have failed or not in the past. Scripted via BMR or whatever? Whatever fails gets looked the next day. And it doesn't get resolved, gets listed in the known problems section of the release.

    Extra credit: the type of test would be handled as a type of test which you could test other tools. So, the Table tool flunks because it wasn't joined up with the Table Styles tool. There will other tools that uses dgnlibs or rsc or whatever to work. The scripted test would be recycled to cover those tools... consistently and automation assissted. No humans involved for the first pass.

    New coders could also use the scripted testing for a particular tool to help understand why the underlying code has certain features and judge how mature his code is, and plan accordingly. This should help offset the negative impacts of Agile 'no spec, I will muddle through and see where I get, and yes, you should be happy I delivered something, bro' style programming that is popular these days?