Hello,
I think this is a very general question, I tried searching the forum for similar threads but couldn't find any. Let me try to phrase the question:
Our clients request all As Built documentation to be delivered in PDF and DWG. They won't accept DGN because Microstation / Openbuildings Designer / ProStructures (the softwares we use at our company) are simply very little known or used in our region. So that means I have to convert all sheets to DWG.
Unfortunately though, I can't find a good setting to create well structured DWG file. What I would like to achieve is a single DWG file for each sheet where the geometry, annotations, ... from the (DGN) drawing models are placed in the model space and the layout contains viewports. The way it would be if I created the drawing in AutoCAD for example. Other software like Revit and Tekla Structures do this in a good way, in my opinion.
The best I can achieve from Bentley products, without having to use XREF to external files, is to use the option to "merge" references. But this means that all geometry will be drawn in the layout/paperspace of the DWG file and model space will remain blank. This is unacceptable.
I can imagine one of the difficulties is that DWG only supports a single "Model space", which would correspond to the design/drawing models in a DGN file. And one sheet usually references multiple of those models.
The other softwares I named above handle this by placing all the geometry side-by-side in the model view, then creating the relevant Viewports in the layout. A much more elegant solution, meaning mostly that one can simply measure in the model space without worrying about scale etc.
As it happens I just got a question from one of my colleagues related to this exact problem, while I was typing this post. So I'm 100% certain that we are not the only people struggling with this, there must be others, architects, ... who have the same issue.
Is there a solution for this? Or would it require a big amount of rework for the DWG exporter to create such functionality?
Johan De Cock said:Our clients request all As Built documentation to be delivered in PDF and DWG. They won't accept DGN because Microstation / Openbuildings Designer / ProStructures (the softwares we use at our company) are simply very little known or used in our region.
For this case, I recommend you directly use DWG format rather than DGN format. MicroStation natively support DWG file format.
Thanks for your reply, but that's not a solution. Like I stated I am using Openbuildings Designer and ProStructures. I'm quite certain they don't work in DWG mode.
Anyway, even in plain Microstatoin, it would defeat the purpose of using MS, wouldn't it? In that case I could just as well draw everything in AutoCAD.
I work as for a civil/transportation consultant firm, with the bulk of our work being for the State of Indiana in the U.S.
Indiana is not the most forward-thinking place, and I suspect the DOT CAD developers are understaffed and overwhelmed. The state next door, Ohio, was one of the top DOTs that I knew for their development of MicroStation/Geopak standards in the 90's. In the same time period, I still had Indiana projects that were hand-drafted. Not many, and they had been on the shelf for a few years, but still. The prints were the only portion submitted, and that hasn't changed. Indiana didn't even provide CAD standards that consultants could use until the mid 2000's. We just got their ORD standards in November. I may be able to retire before Indiana starts requiring CAD model submittals.
Other clients do ask for CAD data, but that is most often just design drawings. I can't think of the last time I had to deliver an actual sheet drawing to anyone.
MaryB
Power GeoPak 08.11.09.918Power InRoads 08.11.09.918OpenRoads Designer 2021 R2
Thanks! Always interesting to learn how work is done in other parts of the world :)
Maybe need to use CVE's for some or all of the views?
It would be interesting if Axiom could help. Sounds like this would be common problem.
www.axiomint.com/.../
Thanks Dominic! I'll contact them to find out what their DGN to DWG converter does different compared to the built-in one from Bentley.
Johan De Cock said:Or don't you have to deal with it
As DWGs allow a file with one model and several Sheets I am do not have to deal with it. And I get DWGs in the same fashion as well.
If I would need separate files for each sheet I'd use the Filter-Tab>Models in the SaveAs-Options and only choose the one of the Sheets plus the Model. That is a manual step for each file. (Have not checked if scripting is applicable though)
mlm said:As DWGs allow a file with one model and several Sheets I am do not have to deal with it. And I get DWGs in the same fashion as well.
Hi Gerd, thanks for your reaction!
Can you very briefly describe your workflow with DGN files: 3D/2D model => Drawing => Sheet all in one file or ...? From how I understand your description it looks like you make multiple sheets based on the same model, each with a Saved view placed directly on the sheet? That would be a very similar way of working compared to AutoCAD. In such case I can see how that would work in DWG export.
Hi Johan,
that is correct. I basically see no difference between mS and AC in that respect.
We have mostly a file per floor. We get architectureal plans and reference them. Basically to get in our electrical crafts requrements for the onsite works (still mostly 2D, sometimes a mix e.g. when it comes to raceways etc.)
In the electrical craft we need to produce separate plans (deliverbles depending on the customrer are either dgns or dwgs plus pdfs) for each sub craft like eletrical installations, lighting, network installation, security, alarm and more.
Depending on the complexity of the project we have only one file per floor with all crafts. Then we have Sheets (Viewports) with the particular levels switched on. (When the complexity is too high it may be better to have be separeate files for e.g. high voltage, low voltage and communication installations....)
In any case it should be straigtforward to generate dwgs from dgns. (given the devils in the detais of the formats)
If the customer would want to have separate dwgs for each drawing that should be probably defined at the start of the project(?) You can do that but you get a lot of files. To separate that out later you would need to do copies and delete what you don't need for the specific drawing.
I am thinking that it is worth - if you have a lot of files - you probably can achieve that through scripts that automate the repetitive steps.
Hi Gerd,
Thank you for the detailed explanation. So for confirmation, you are not using "Drawing" models in MS? Only design model and sheet model?
In this "simple" line of work not, right.
I would in full 3D construction probably. To use microStations et.al. potential in full.
It rather always depends what the deliverables are. For delivering DWGs it is probably not helpful though.
Thanks!
mlm said:I would in full 3D construction probably.
I don't think there is any other choice when working in 3D, ergo my question/problem
mlm said:For delivering DWGs it is probably not helpful though.
Since the DWG in my work is but an "extract" of the model, albeit an important one, I don't have much of a choice.
Thanks again for participating in the discussion!