Hello,
I think this is a very general question, I tried searching the forum for similar threads but couldn't find any. Let me try to phrase the question:
Our clients request all As Built documentation to be delivered in PDF and DWG. They won't accept DGN because Microstation / Openbuildings Designer / ProStructures (the softwares we use at our company) are simply very little known or used in our region. So that means I have to convert all sheets to DWG.
Unfortunately though, I can't find a good setting to create well structured DWG file. What I would like to achieve is a single DWG file for each sheet where the geometry, annotations, ... from the (DGN) drawing models are placed in the model space and the layout contains viewports. The way it would be if I created the drawing in AutoCAD for example. Other software like Revit and Tekla Structures do this in a good way, in my opinion.
The best I can achieve from Bentley products, without having to use XREF to external files, is to use the option to "merge" references. But this means that all geometry will be drawn in the layout/paperspace of the DWG file and model space will remain blank. This is unacceptable.
I can imagine one of the difficulties is that DWG only supports a single "Model space", which would correspond to the design/drawing models in a DGN file. And one sheet usually references multiple of those models.
The other softwares I named above handle this by placing all the geometry side-by-side in the model view, then creating the relevant Viewports in the layout. A much more elegant solution, meaning mostly that one can simply measure in the model space without worrying about scale etc.
As it happens I just got a question from one of my colleagues related to this exact problem, while I was typing this post. So I'm 100% certain that we are not the only people struggling with this, there must be others, architects, ... who have the same issue.
Is there a solution for this? Or would it require a big amount of rework for the DWG exporter to create such functionality?
MaryB said:Revit is an AutoDesk product - the same people who make AutoCAD. It makes sense to me that two AutoDesk packages can communicate and translate easily. It's the same company.
I'm not sure how much that matters because Revit and AutoCAD are two completely different products. There is no link between them like there is between Microstation and it's verticals. But let's not argue on that since it's not really relevant here.
The same can't be said from Tekla, and they do it very similar to Revit.
MaryB said:but we are kind of left out to dry if we need to share our information in DWG format.
The way I see it, DWG exchange should be very similar to IFC exchange. Of course DWG isn't an "open" format like IFC but it is so wide-spread that in reality the workflow can be very similar.
In my opinion it should not matter which software is used to get to the same result. Whatever the "internal" workflow inside a software to get to a certain result (in this case a sheet containing geometry, dimensions, annotations, ...), it should be possible to export (to DWG) as a deliverable with a similar result.
So far my opinion of course. I think the most important things have been said somewhere above here so I'll not push it any further in next posts. If and when Bentley is interested they'll find the info, or they can contact me directly to learn more
Revit is an AutoDesk product - the same people who make AutoCAD. It makes sense to me that two AutoDesk packages can communicate and translate easily. It's the same company.
You're right that the work process of Bentley Verticals isn't designed to convert to other drawing formats. It's designed to be a one-shop solution. The introduction of the drawing models necessary for sections, resymbolization, etc. are technology that just can't be easily converted to other formats. I appreciate the advanced capability, but we are kind of left out to dry if we need to share our information in DWG format.
I haven't tried to work in ORD in DWGmode, and I probably won't for some time, but I fully expect to run into the same issues.
MaryB
Power GeoPak 08.11.09.918Power InRoads 08.11.09.918OpenRoads Designer 2021 R2
mlm said:True. But it appears that you can only define it at the top of the foodchain (Owner/Operator)
MaryB said:Much of the potential of MicroStation isn't possible in DWG
I don't see why. As stated earlier, Revit and Tekla also provide DWG export. Both platforms work even more differently from AutoCAD compared to Microstation, yet they manage to provide DWG's that are - in my opinion - better DWG files.
MaryB said:you may just need to bite the bullet and work in DWG workmode.
I don't even know if that is possible in Openbuildings Designer and ProStructures. I expect not since both platforms rely on the use of drawing models for re-symbolization of geometry.
I'd even go so far as to state that the fact that MS has a DWG workmode makes it worse for DWG output compared to the competitors that don't. It seems like the "Export" DWG has the same engine as the "Save as" DWG. For "Save As" it makes sense to convert as much as possible all kinds of settings and editable material.
For me in an "Export" workflow, it really doesn't matter. All geometry may be dropped to simple lines/shapes. All text may be dropped to plane text (losing all tags, item types, ...), ... Dimensions must remain dimensions, but I don't think that's the most difficult element.
Since you are stuck providing AutoCAD deliverables, you are also stuck with the limitations of DWG format. Much of the potential of MicroStation isn't possible in DWG. It's just NOT; DWG can't do it. If you know going in, you may just need to bite the bullet and work in DWG workmode. I know that it is very limiting, but it also guarantees that your drawings convert to AutoCAD relatively painlessly.
Johan De Cock said:in my opinion a waste of MS potential
True. But it appears that you can only define it at the top of the foodchain (Owner/Operator)
In my line of work (quite down in the foodchain) we get a lot of different files from other crafts (for coordination) - using all kinds of applications. Often dwg exports, e.g.flattened Revit, Archicad, HVAC apps.... Often that comes down to a mix of 2D and 3D - it is always getting "interesting" as you can imagine.
If the client (OO) does not stipulate the use of CAD/BIM everything is all over the place.