Problem with Microstation v8i ss3; screen goes black - NVIDIA doesn't respond

Re: Problem with Microstation v8i ss3; screen goes black - NVIDIA doesn't respond

Brian Yeo — Thu, 07 Nov 2013 20:27:57 GMT

Thank you for the update.

Re: Problem with Microstation v8i ss3; screen goes black - NVIDIA doesn't respond

Russell Smith — Thu, 07 Nov 2013 19:58:04 GMT

All,

For background, please read the Known Issues FAQ entry starting with "Screen Goes Black..." found here: communities.bentley.com/.../4172.aspx

And in case you don't read that entry fully... This is not just an issue with MicroStation--it can happen with any DirectX 11 graphics-intensive program. That being said, it is an extremely frustrating problem for everyone involved... companies and customers alike.

This is still being worked on by NVIDIA. I filed the incident report myself, and I am in contact with them on a regular basis, but there is no target date for a fix from them. I have sent them pre-configured laptops that reproduce the problem, and they have fixed some of the causes of the TDRs, but not all. It is an extremely difficult problem to reproduce at will, therefore it is an extremely difficult problem to fix.

The only software workaround is to use DirectX 9 via the QV_D3DVERSION=9 environment variable.

If / when there is any significant news regarding this problem, I'll post it.

Russell

Re: Problem with Microstation v8i ss3; screen goes black - NVIDIA doesn't respond

RobertArnold — Thu, 07 Nov 2013 19:47:34 GMT

Hi CP,

That is strange. If someone is using DirectX, it really should not matter what hardware is being used. DirectX should be a protocol that the hardware should be designed to support and then the software can call on. Of course, I know nothing about what I'm talking about. If you have to design a piece of software for each individual piece of hardware out there--that is totally ridiculous.

--Robert

Re: Problem with Microstation v8i ss3; screen goes black - NVIDIA doesn't respond

Christiaan Post — Thu, 07 Nov 2013 18:30:28 GMT

Hi Robert,

I have these problems too and I just contacted nVidea about this issue and they say you have to go to Bentley.

"this issue would occur when the application that we are running is not supported by the hardware. I just looked at MicroStation site to see if the GPU which you have mentioned is supported and unfortunately they do not support any of the laptop GPU'sThe recommendations on the following link is not compatible with laptops.

communities.bentley.com/.../4175.aspx

Anyone?

Re: Problem with Microstation v8i ss3; screen goes black - NVIDIA doesn't respond

RobertArnold — Fri, 01 Nov 2013 02:10:24 GMT

Hi Yeo-Kiewit,

[quote user="Yeo - Kiewit"] Mr.Smith: Can you or someone else w/ Bentley please let us know if indeed this problem is being worked on at all and if so what your target date is for a resolution?[/quote]

Just a reminder, this is an NVidia issue, not a Bentley issue. This issue has also occurred with other applications. So Bentley has submitted their issues to NVidia. You as an end-user can also contact NVidia to find out what they are doing to fix their problem.

--Robert

Re: Problem with Microstation v8i ss3; screen goes black - NVIDIA doesn't respond

Eric Milberger — Thu, 31 Oct 2013 09:00:08 GMT

We use the Dell systems also and are very disatisfied. They are like a model T and last, but they are the low end of tech. The video is a good example - it is very low end for the price. (at least what the govt pays for their machines)

There are very cheap cards and better cards that can be added to replace those. This is not a suggestion to buy as I know this is a pain, but another workaround.

Re: Problem with Microstation v8i ss3; screen goes black - NVIDIA doesn't respond

Brian Yeo — Wed, 30 Oct 2013 20:19:12 GMT

Our firm has been patiently waiting for some time now after being told from Bentley that their developers were "working with nVidia" to resolve the DirectX11 problem. I understand that a temporary workaround solution is to revert our workstations back to DirectX9 but we view that as only a temporary workaround and any suggestion that we should view this as a long-term solution is a somewhat inferior response to the issue; we do not view this as a viable long-term solution and my understanding from prior conversations w/Bentley personnel has been that Bentley does not either.

We're running Quadro4000 cards on Dell Precision workstations w/ Win7-64bit. We did notice a reduction in the occurances of the familiar usually momentary black screen w/ auto-recovery but occasionally fatal lock-up video driver error when the v311.50 nVidia driver came out but the errors were still occuring. And we confirmed that at the next driver (v320.? as I recall) the problem still existed. We just downloaded the latest performance driver for this card (v331.65) and still I see no listing for any Bentley app in the global presets pulldown options distributed with the driver. And still If one navigates to the certified drivers portal on the nVidia site and drills down to the Bentley certified drivers page we see that the latest BentleyMicrostationV8i certified driver for Win7-64bit = quadro-win7-winvista-64bit-258.96-whql with a release date of 2010-07-19. This finding is not yet supporting statements from Bentley that they are "working with nVidia to resolve this problem". Mr.Smith: Can you or someone else w/ Bentley please let us know if indeed this problem is being worked on at all and if so what your target date is for a resolution? Thank you.

We're running AECOsimBDv8i-SS3 (v08.11.09.376). I am not aware of us having encountered these video error problems with any of the other applications which we run and several of those programs are similarly 3D graphical in nature.

Re: Problem with Microstation v8i ss3; screen goes black - NVIDIA doesn't respond

Reimo — Fri, 28 Jun 2013 18:49:00 GMT

I can confirm these Problems with Nvidia Quadro Driver 320.0, even without using Microstation, Win 7 64 with other products only.

Re: Problem with Microstation v8i ss3; screen goes black - NVIDIA doesn't respond

Steve Pratt — Thu, 27 Jun 2013 14:56:21 GMT

We had similar problems several months ago after upgrading to SS3 ver 08.11.09.357

I noticed was that some users weren’t experiencing the same problems as others.

Two users plus myself were having MicroStation crashing frequently along with the black screen recovering message.

I haven’t checked exactly which version of NVIDIA driver all the pcs are using but my pc is running NVIDIA driver version 320.00

PCs have a Quadro 600 graphics card.

Operating System is Windows 7 Enterprise SP1 64bit

One difference the pcs had was the mouse they were using and as a consequence the driver.

On my pc I’m using an Intellimouse Optical with the latest driver.

Having looked at a number of previous posts including the link in your post on the issue and also looking at the NVIDIA forums I did the following;

Set the config variable

QV_D3DVERSION=9

This will force the graphics to use DirectX 9

Make sure any users having problems change the Personalisation Theme from Aero themes to Windows 7 Basic and change mouse pointers scheme from Aero to none.

This has helped the situation a lot but there are still minor display issues such as screen not drawing properly on occasion and the user needing to refresh the screen. The three users (including myself) who were having MicroStation crashing and the black screen driver recovering message have not reported any of those problems since implementing the above changes.

Steve

Re: Problem with Microstation v8i ss3; screen goes black - NVIDIA doesn't respond

Russell Smith — Tue, 25 Jun 2013 19:42:00 GMT

Reproducing these TDRs on a regular basis such that they can be debugged has been the single greatest challenge. If you could send your QV_GLSTATS to me that would help. I would especially like to see it with the 320.00 driver still in place and without the workaround, but I can just make note of the differences if you prefer to send it as is. It may help to send a specific DGN that you have had it happen in (if possible). Everything can make a difference in reproducing the problem.

1. In your environment, set QV_GLSTATS=1

2. Run MicroStation.

3. This will generate output in a MicroStation Text Window at the start of the run, which will contain OS information, graphics card / driver information, and information specific to QVision.

4. Cut and paste that information in an e-mail to me, russell.smith@bentley.com, or post the results back to this forum.

About switching to the older driver... It's possible that the older driver could be different enough that the TDRs stop happening, but I would expect that any fixes made earlier would be carried forward, so generally, the latest driver is your best bet. If the TDRs happen frequently in what you do, then using the workaround until the next driver comes out is definitely the way to go.

Thanks,

Russell