Hi,
clients starting to ask more and more on getting coordinates on our drawings.
Today we have a pretty streamlined workflow working with only XYZ and I would like to keep that unchanged.
So here are some of my thoughts:
1. Coordinate systems (at least in Sweden) requires working units to be meter? True or false?
1a. If false do I need to convert coordinates from meters to millimeters before I enter them into MicroStation?
2. Is it possible to have a separate file that I only reference in our base model and locate it correct in the geographic coordinates. If needed I can then always merge in the model and I get a full model with all coordinates to be able to send to client.
3. Do I need to be concerned about the solids working area or accuracy for the models? As the location most of the time is far away from the origin?
But these are only my thought on the whole thing, what would really be best practice here?
Any help appreciated.
Regards
Daniel
Daniel,
If the clients simply want to be able to view your DGN files and read out Latitude/Longitude values, or it they want to reference your DGN into another DGN that has a Geographic Coordinate System assigned to it, you can do that quite easily.
You don't have to change anything about how you draw the substations. Use the same units, the same coordinate system, and the same solids working area that you are currently using.
When a design is complete (or really at any time), you can create a Geographic Coordinate System that describes where it is in Latitude Longitude space by creating 2 or more geographic placemarks in the design and using those to create a local GCS. A placemark associates a Latitude/Longitude with an X/Y position in your design. There are a number of different ways to get the Latitude/Longitude - you may already know where it is, or you may be able to find it from Google Earth.
The placemark tool is the fifth from the left in the Geographic tool box.
Then use the leftmost tool (Select Geographic Coordinate System). You'll get this dialog:
The From Placemarks tool is the third from the left.
After that, your design is geographically located and can be referenced into other design files with a GCS. For a comparatively small installation, you can usually use the AEC Transform method of geographic referencing.
HTH
Barry Bentley
Answer Verified By: Daniel Jarlestig
Thanks, for all the answers!
As we sometimes gets the coordinates for line towers we need to be able to place them accurately in the world compared to our site. And we also get coordinates based on different systems. But now I start too see how it all works.
One issue is that MicroStation handles the coordinates the opposite way compared to other softwares like Google Maps. MS uses Long, Lat rather than the accepted norm of Lat, Long. And for Sweden that means East North instead of North East..
Couldn't understand why my sites always ended up in the wrong part of the world. :)
MicroStation 08.11.09.829MicroStation Connect Update 11ProjectWise 08.11.11.590LumenRT Update 11
Hi Daniel,
Unknown said:e, maybe it's different in different parts of the world?
There is no difference if all speak the same technical language in detail ;-)
As I saw in Microstation GeoGraphic Coordinate System Tool there are a lot sub-coordinate System within SWEREF99 so you have to be more precise getting us a SWEREF99 TM coordinate like 6609930 (NORTH!!!), 587591(EAST!!!).
What is the right system from the list:
as you may see there are systems with inverted axis where (EAST and NORTH Values may interchange from the mathematical view to X Y , Y X
Same for RT90 is seems to be interchanged between EAST and NORTH if we watch the "Fasle Easting Vaule" of the GCS "RT90-0 RT90 0,0gon, Meters"So attached you find an dgn example with three models with a cell at your coordinate values:
X used for EAST value or Long value with the used GCS in DGN
Open the model SWEREF99 or WGS84 and you will see the the view will synchronize with goggle earth at your known location "Mäster Ahls gata11,..."
Frank
since 1985: GIS, CAD, Engineering (Civil) Senior Consultant : [Autodesk Civil 3D , Esri ArcGIS, VertiGIS: in previous days : Bentley MS V4 - V8i, GeoGraphics, Bentley Map V8i, InRoads, HHK Geograf, IBr DAVID] : Dev: [C, C++, .NET, Java, SQL, FORTRAN, UML][direct quote by: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helmut_Schmidt]: "Wer Kritik übel nimmt, hat etwas zu verbergen"Wer Grammatik- und/oder Rechtschreibfehler findet, der darf sie behalten :-)
gsc-test.dgn
Hi Frank,
the Coordinates system that should be used in this case is SWEREF 99 TM and the issue is that 6609930 is North and 587591 is East.
I attached three files with the different coordinate systems, SWEREF 99 TM, SWEREF 99 TM - Normal and SEREF 99 TM Inverted.
The Inverted gives the possibility to add the coordinates in the correct way (according to me then) North, East while both the others I need to enter East, North.
Unknown said:the Coordinates system that should be used in this case is SWEREF 99 TM and the issue is that 6609930 is North and 587591 is East.
than everything is cleared !!! Nice to help you
and I really appreciate all the help. Wonderful source of information this community and it's members :)
quote
I understand your point here. But as the coordinates get's more common in other tools as well as on different web based map services it's gets confusing. Like this one in SE that gets me the coordinates in different formats. All different compared to how I need to enter them into MicroStation.
So even if it's more correct to use E, N compared to N, E it's not always the best way. Same as for Google maps.
quote:
Daniel wgs 84 are not N& E thay are Latitude ( n) and longitude (e) and the angles of lines that intersect, and we use the instersection to pinpoint a place on a curved surface if you dont have the n & the e or a interger sign then the same numbers are on the other side of the world or 2 locations 180 degs apart.... afterall the earth is a globe not a flat sheet of paper....
The coordinates are the RT90 & SWEREF99TM both are flat or planar cartesian coordinates of reprojected datums hence both are in xy which is eastings & northings again people say give me the northing and easting but you then give them the easting and northing instead...and always put the N and E at the begining just for safety as not all drafters are survey or mapping or gis aware...
Lorys
Started msnt work 1990 - Retired Nov 2022 ( oh boy am I old )
But was long time user V8iss10 (8.11.09.919) dabbler CE update 16 (10.16.00.80)
MicroStation user since 1990 Melbourne Australia.click link to PM me