Why my CADD is better than AuoCAD

This started in a thread in the annotation forum and someone suggested this topic, so as one who likes trowing rocks at bee hives, I took up the baton and am going to kick this off.

  • Can you reference the paperspace into another paperspace or a model?
  • Can you reference a file to itself?
  • Can you create multiple models in a single file?
  • Can you display linetypes on 3D polylines?
  • Can you create linetypes that represent real world objects and do not scale with Annotation scale?

Later, after others have added to this list, I will post AutoCAD features that I like that MicroStation does not offer...

Who's next?

Parents
  • Bingo! I just thought about this issue. This week, I was swamped with production work. But our AutoCAD license server kept turning itself off, and then, one of the guys from one of our other offices was platooned to our office for an AutoCAD project. So on three different days, he was on three different PC's. So on day 1, I had to run my special programs to configure Civil 3D to see our customizations. Had he been working in MicroStation, he would have simply launched from the standard icon.

    Day 2 he gets moved to a new PC. Repeat process. Day 3 new PC - but deadlines were at this point at critical mass - so he was forced to work with OTB software.


    Charles (Chuck) Rheault
    CADD Manager

    MDOT State Highway Administration

    • MicroStation user since IGDS, InRoads user since TDP.
    • AutoCAD, Land Desktop and Civil 3D, off and on since 1996
  • My experience on the "CAD" forums, has been that when I post a question, there is a better than 50% chance that I will get a response that is in direct opposition to what I asked, or will ask why I want to do something that in my question, I have already explained my constraints in detail.

    Also, as one who came to the private sector after 18 years at a DOT, I see that too many large clients, like the DOT's, have blinders on when it comes to not just what everyone else is doing, but often when it comes to what the software is capable of.

    Years ago, when we were still using IGDS and were only beginning to dabble in MicroStation, a project manager came to me because a consultant firm was asked to do something that for us, was simple. They had not only been unable to complete the task in more than a week, were not able to explain why they could not. I was asked as the CAD Manager to talk to them and find out what the problem was.

    So it turns out, they were using AutoCAD and this was pre-xref and paper space days. So a number of design changes were proposed long after they had chopped up their designs to fit on sheets. For us, we had no such workflow, since clipped reference files were how we made sheets from day one and the overall design always existed intact in one file.

    Someone had asked them to plot the overall design on a single long plot for a meeting. They were pulling ram from PC's every night, trying to reconstitute the overall plan, only to have AutoCAD crash without them ever being able to save the drawing. And by the next morning, they had to restore the PC's they had borrowed the RAM from for production.

    Once they explained that because they were using AutoCAD, there no longer was a file that contained the overall design, and their efforts to reassemble the design was proving impossible, I had a simple sollution. I told them to go old school (although back then, no one used that phrase) and get out tape and scissors. Once I told them that I would run interference for them so that no one would question the solution, they were back on schedule.

    I guess I've always been willing to think outside the box, long before it was the "thing to do!"


    Charles (Chuck) Rheault
    CADD Manager

    MDOT State Highway Administration

    • MicroStation user since IGDS, InRoads user since TDP.
    • AutoCAD, Land Desktop and Civil 3D, off and on since 1996
  • Tom, thats because most people newbees speak Acad and cant get their heads around reference files so if you dont know the right way to ask for something that you dont know how to do it or what its called then how can we interpret what they want... we were all newbees once  and I have had terrible experience with Acad users outside world they dont want to share knowledge or can envision different ways to work for god sake they still use colours for line styles instead of WYSIWG where acad has changed so you can do WYSIWG ...

    Where as these forums people  bend over backwards to help... didnt we steer you to Keiths Books...  I and others have even offered to fix files or do the work for them ... not so in Acad world...

    Lorys ( 20 years with Mstn and loving it)

    Lorys

    Started msnt work 1990 - Retired  Nov 2022 ( oh boy am I old )

    But was long time user V8iss10 (8.11.09.919) dabbler CE  update 16 (10.16.00.80) 

    MicroStation user since 1990 Melbourne Australia.
    click link to PM me 

  • AutoCAD:

    On Dimensions:

    ....I can stretch dimensions in all directions from any of the points using stretch, or the grips

    ....I can move dimension text on the fly anytime, anywhere to get it off another crossing dimline

    ....I can disable dimension extension lines on the fly independently on various dimensions on the same dimstyle from one side of the dimension to the other

    ....I can change a dimension's extension line linetype on the fly independently from one side of the dimension to the other

    ....I can change a dimension's arrowhead style on the fly independently from one side of the dimension to the other

    On text:

    ....AutoCAD's text editor is so far advanced above and beyond the text editor in Microstation, everything about AutoCAD's text editor is better.  It is like having microsoft word right there in the text editor.

    On GUI:

    ...Command line - Everything is at my fingertips without much movement with customizable hotkeys and quick keys.  This also keeps my drawing space clean and clear of irrellevant clutter in regards to my current task at hand. Microstation has many dialog boxes that constantly pop up (and a lot of times stay up unless you manually close them, even when they are not needed or you have moved on from that task), these cover up my drawing space and I put many more miles on my mouse in microstation navigating all of the windows, toolbars, pulldowns, moving them to & from, etc... than I do in AutoCAD

    ESC Key:

    ....In nearly every program known to Windows OS, ESC key gets you out of everything and takes you back to Zero.  Select all, select some, start a command, go 3 steps into a 10-step command or menu, etc...ESC gets you out. This includes Microsoft Word, Excel, etc...This includes word processing, PDF programs, C++ programs, video games, AutoCAD.  But, not in Microstation.  This seems a bit out of date.

    On Printing:

    ...AutoCAD printing window has everything you need.  V8i, I feel like I am back in AutoCAD r14 (year 2000) trying to print.

    ...I can zoom in & out on my print preview (again like most other programs that use Windows OS)

    Dynamic Blocks:

    ...AutoCAD has them

    Design Center:

    ...Works a bit more intuitively than Cell Selector in V8i

  • Dimensions - The first two lines in Ms are also on the fly.

    Text - In my opinion you quite right, lets see what Bentley is preparing for the new version...

    ESC key - Can be used similiar if you turn on that option in preferences.

    Print - For print preview I agree with you, in fact some years ago I ask for that and unti now nothing...

               But Print organizer is in fact far far far better that publish.

    Dynamic blocks - In Ms you have DDD.

    If Acad as design center Ms as References and Rasters capabilities that are light years away...

    José

  • Jose,

    1. From what I can tell, if I select a dimension in Microstation, go to the grip where the dimension extension line connects to the element, click and drag, it moves the entire dimension.

    2. I have yet to find a way to move text from dimensions without in turn moving the entire dimension.

    (If there is a way to do these two things in Microstation, please tell me.  It would help me greatly.)

    3. ESC key in Microstation only gets you out of the command, but it leaves any selected items selected.  This is opposite all the items I listed in my comment.

Reply
  • Jose,

    1. From what I can tell, if I select a dimension in Microstation, go to the grip where the dimension extension line connects to the element, click and drag, it moves the entire dimension.

    2. I have yet to find a way to move text from dimensions without in turn moving the entire dimension.

    (If there is a way to do these two things in Microstation, please tell me.  It would help me greatly.)

    3. ESC key in Microstation only gets you out of the command, but it leaves any selected items selected.  This is opposite all the items I listed in my comment.

Children
  • Unknown said:
    I have yet to find a way to move text from dimensions without in turn moving the entire dimension.

    As Lorys said, training, training, training....


    USE "modify element" you can change what you want, for dimensions!

    The red ones are related to dimensions, too

    Unknown said:
    ESC key in Microstation only gets you out of the

    Nobody needs this KEY if using Microstation as it is developed, training, training, and forget AutoCAD input mechanisms

    If you really have such basic questions, don't hesitate to open an new thread, you will find help.

    Regards

    Frank

    since 1985: GIS, CAD, Engineering (Civil)  Senior Consultant : [Autodesk Civil 3D , Esri ArcGIS, VertiGIS: in previous days : Bentley MS V4 - V8i, GeoGraphics, Bentley Map V8i, InRoads,  HHK Geograf, IBr DAVID] :  Dev: [C, C++, .NET, Java, SQL, FORTRAN, UML]
    [direct quote by: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helmut_Schmidt]: "Wer Kritik übel nimmt, hat etwas zu verbergen"
    Wer Grammatik- und/oder Rechtschreibfehler findet, der darf sie behalten :-)

  • I think there are so much more EXTRAS within Microstation compared to AutoCAD for almost the same money, Or what do you think.....

    Regards

    Frank

    since 1985: GIS, CAD, Engineering (Civil)  Senior Consultant : [Autodesk Civil 3D , Esri ArcGIS, VertiGIS: in previous days : Bentley MS V4 - V8i, GeoGraphics, Bentley Map V8i, InRoads,  HHK Geograf, IBr DAVID] :  Dev: [C, C++, .NET, Java, SQL, FORTRAN, UML]
    [direct quote by: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helmut_Schmidt]: "Wer Kritik übel nimmt, hat etwas zu verbergen"
    Wer Grammatik- und/oder Rechtschreibfehler findet, der darf sie behalten :-)

  • Unknown said:
    training, training, and forget AutoCAD input mechanisms

    If you really have such basic questions, don't hesitate to open an new thread, you will find help.

    Huh, if only. When the training, training is self-training, hard to believe but one really does have such basic questions and you've no idea how hungry one is for a few (intelligible) words from the wise, rather than cryptic
    Unknown said:
    Nobody needs this KEY if using Microstation as it is developed
    I'm left none the wiser.

    Unknown said:
    if you don't want the elements selected you only need to click on the open space of the view with the mouse

    And that - nothing like it for me. What am I missing?

  • I believe we are trying to compare different softwares for the same solutions. There are all a bunch of small and great details for me that makes me choose Ms everytime... But that's just me.

    Quite true for the hungry ones, I'm of them.

    José

  • Unknown said:
    I'm of them

    Greetings - sometimes I think I'm the only solo user of MS, let alone AECOsim!