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Using Pen tables, looking for a logical name to plot when references are nested.

Gunny Highway
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I have for years plotted by using a pen table that looks for references in a dgn file that are referenced by logical name. I set up a different pen table for each type of plot that I'm doing within a plan set so that elements are always drawn one time and placed by defined elements per layer definition. This way I can draw existing planimetrics in the survey file, and depending on what plan sheet this survey ends up on, I can plot it to have a different look by setting a different pen table up for the plot.

The issue I have is a user wants to use a nested reference file in the plan sheets so that he can more easily control layer on-off state in the plan sheets by turning them on or off in the nested file once, and they update in all the plan sheets. I actually kinda like this idea, since it does solve a problem with cad techs being inconsistent from sheet to sheet with certain layers being turned on in one sheet, and off in others. BUT, I can't seem to find a way to get the pen tables to recognize the logical name within the nested file now, so I can't control the way elements look on a plot. The pen table only recognizes the actual nested ref file, not the files that are referenced into that file.

Any Idea how I can get a pen table to recognize a logical name within a nested reference?

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  • 0 Offline
    Is this an IPLOT design script (pen table) or a MicroStation pen table? Are you using this pen table in the context of IPLOT or MicroStation Printing? I would have thought an IPLOT pen table would pick up the nested logical name. Would it be possible to get a sample of your files and the pen table?



  • 0 Offline in reply to Gunny Highway
    What version of MicroStation? We tested in MicroStation V8i SS3 and we were able to see the nested files by logical name. Can you send your data set?



  • 0 Offline in reply to Dawn Clark Gentry
    I'm using 08.11.09.536.

    I can see the files in the reference box by logical name, by expanding the nested ref file, but I can't seem to get the pen table to recognize the file by logical name that would be referenced as part of the nest.

    here's my workflow, I have several files that contain elements, Survey file, design file, pavement marking file....etc. I assign a logical name to each of these files and have several tools that allow me to maipulate those files individually with those logical names. To create plan sheets of the files I reference all of them into a "NEST" file with each files logical name, So the Survey is PLN and the design is DSN...etc. Then I reference that NEST file into a plan sheet file (We still use seperate files for the plan sheets, so they're not in the same dgn file as the other models.) and set up my clip boundaries in the plan sheet file. Then to PLOT each sheet I typically have a pen table for each type of file, so for my "SITE" plans, I would use a "SITE" pen table. This pen table is looking for the logical name "PLN" to make all of the survey print shaded.

    My problem is with this extra level of nesting, instead of referencing each model with the logical name individually, it's only finding the "NEST" file and not redirecting the survey to plot shaded.
  • 0 Offline in reply to Gunny Highway
    OK, so you are expecting the pen table to modify the reference with the logical name NEST and have any refs attached to NEST affected as well? If this is the case, it is not possible. Only the file with NEST as the logical will be affected, any attached refs (which have different logical names) will not be affected by the pen table changes. I believe this working as designed.



  • 0 Offline in reply to Dawn Clark Gentry
    Correct.......We are looking for ways to be consistent with level states from plan sheet to plan sheet, and referencing in all the files into a "NEST" file first, then referencing that file into a plan sheet file allows the CAD techs to turn layers on and off in one location and have the layer states be consistent, but by doing that, I lose the ability to plot by logical name then, which I don't want to lose......It's easy to set up a pen table to redirect everything in a file to "Shade" or plot dark as desired, and doing that by logical name makes it simple. So, now it seems like I'm back to looking at other ways to make sure the cad techs have a tool to be consistent in setting layers on or off depending on the type of sheet we are looking to plot.
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  • 0 Offline in reply to Dawn Clark Gentry
    Correct.......We are looking for ways to be consistent with level states from plan sheet to plan sheet, and referencing in all the files into a "NEST" file first, then referencing that file into a plan sheet file allows the CAD techs to turn layers on and off in one location and have the layer states be consistent, but by doing that, I lose the ability to plot by logical name then, which I don't want to lose......It's easy to set up a pen table to redirect everything in a file to "Shade" or plot dark as desired, and doing that by logical name makes it simple. So, now it seems like I'm back to looking at other ways to make sure the cad techs have a tool to be consistent in setting layers on or off depending on the type of sheet we are looking to plot.
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  • 0 Offline in reply to Gunny Highway

    Unknown said:
    Correct.......We are looking for ways to be consistent with level states from plan sheet to plan sheet, and referencing in all the files into a "NEST" file first, then referencing that file into a plan sheet file allows the CAD techs to turn layers on and off in one location and have the layer states be consistent, but by doing that, I lose the ability to plot by logical name then, which I don't want to lose......It's easy to set up a pen table to redirect everything in a file to "Shade" or plot dark as desired, and doing that by logical name makes it simple. So, now it seems like I'm back to looking at other ways to make sure the cad techs have a tool to be consistent in setting layers on or off depending on the type of sheet we are looking to plot.

    sounds to me like you

    1.You need to set the workspace preferences not to allow changes in the levels from a nested ref attachment.

    2. Write some standards that  tell drafters what needs to be set to shaded etc and  how to set up nested refs files with level overrides or dgn libs etc for what type of jobs and which clients and create  specific workspace configs for each standard...

    3. Train your drafters to use the appropriate  standards and standard specific or client specific workspaces...

    4. Still create your custom plt pen tables but link these to custom plots and use the custom plot logical names to select the right pentable for you...by selecting the  right plot config name instead... ie survey plan.pltcfg , site  plan.pltcfg, geometric plan.pltcfg, alignment plan.pltcfg  etc

    5. Enforce the standards.

    Good, experienced, well trained Drafters love using standards, that is  if they are easy to read and well written... I use them all the time... it makes my job easier.. for example our local DOT is really strict about using their long and detailed exacting drawing standards and have published documents and examples for all contractors and staff to use.. and if you dont, then your work is rejected  out of hand...

    Lorys

    Started msnt work 1990 - Retired  Nov 2022 ( oh boy am I old )

    But was long time user V8iss10 (8.11.09.919) dabbler CE  update 16 (10.16.00.80) 

    MicroStation user since 1990 Melbourne Australia.
    click link to PM me 

  • 0 Offline in reply to Lorys
    I have over 30 years CAD management experience.....if a little "Training" and "Enforcement" would have solved the issue, I wouldn't have posted the question. Still looking for a solution.
  • 0 Offline in reply to Gunny Highway

    Very sorry  I didnt mean you  needed the training I meant  in most cases these issues can be overcome by  the cad manager training other users .. I was trying to give you some options in the event that  there may not be a solution to the problem... posts often read different to how they were intended to sound.. again sorry about that ...

    Lorys

    Started msnt work 1990 - Retired  Nov 2022 ( oh boy am I old )

    But was long time user V8iss10 (8.11.09.919) dabbler CE  update 16 (10.16.00.80) 

    MicroStation user since 1990 Melbourne Australia.
    click link to PM me 

  • 0 Offline in reply to Lorys
    No Problem Lorys.....I am an Engineer that knows CAD, and because of that, I have all the other Engineers coming to me with "requests" to solve common issues they all deal with on a daily basis....this is one that is very difficult to resolve since the downturn in the economy here in the US basically got rid of all the non-degreed technical staff, since that was what companies cut. Now we are having to scramble to find users that are cheap and talented enough to actually help produce, and it's not an easy task. If the pen tables were to just be able to find a logical name in a nested ref file, the issue would be solved, but....again it appears that Autocad has a better solution to consistent layer states.
  • 0 Offline in reply to Gunny Highway

    Unknown said:
    No Problem Lorys.....I am an Engineer that knows CAD, and because of that, I have all the other Engineers coming to me with "requests" to solve common issues they all deal with on a daily basis....this is one that is very difficult to resolve since the downturn in the economy here in the US basically got rid of all the non-degreed technical staff, since that was what companies cut. Now we are having to scramble to find users that are cheap and talented enough to actually help produce, and it's not an easy task. If the pen tables were to just be able to find a logical name in a nested ref file, the issue would be solved, but....again it appears that Autocad has a better solution to consistent layer states.

    Totally understand where your coming from we have the same  problem here in Oz , I have 25 years experience with Mstn and am a  non degree msnt drafter with college or post secondary qualification applied mech and drafting, 20 years in civil ... got laid off in april and no real work since its tough on us old farts ....

    Back to your problem .. you could try and  build some custom menus for specific type drawing plots and  these choose custom plot configs.. not the best fix  but would work and easy to follow for non expert users and would work to some extent with your custom / modified pent table(s),,,?

    Not the answer you wanted but  a viable work around..

    Lorys

    Started msnt work 1990 - Retired  Nov 2022 ( oh boy am I old )

    But was long time user V8iss10 (8.11.09.919) dabbler CE  update 16 (10.16.00.80) 

    MicroStation user since 1990 Melbourne Australia.
    click link to PM me 

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