3D-PDFs created with Connect Edition bigger in file size and slower than with V8i?

Hello community,

since we upgraded to the Connect Edition (CE) the behaviour of 3D-PDFs changed.

Here are the problems we encounter:

Difference in file size for the same model:

  • The file size differs if we create the 3D-PDF with CE or if we create it with V8i.
  • The ones created in CE are always a few MB bigger (depends on the overall size and the complexity of the model).

  • What does CE make different than V8i when creating a 3D-PDF and why is the CE-File always bigger?


Opening time for 3D-PDFs created with CE:

  • If we open the 3D-PDF created with CE, it takes much longer to open and we see a kind of “unfinished render” for about 15-90 seconds.
  • The opening time again depends on the models but it is always much much longer than for the files created with V8i from the same model.
  • We do not see this "unfinished render" in the 3D-PDF created with V8i.

Here is a picture of the "unfinished render":


The interesting thing is: If we create the 3D-PDFs of the exact same model with V8i, they are smaller in file size, they open much faster (in just a few seconds) and we do not see the “unfinished render”.


Interesting Fact: Sometimes the Acrobat Reader changes to “not responding” for a short time, but that is not always the case.

Sometimes the Acrobat Reader even says: “This file cannot be shown with the Acrobat Reader. The program will close now.” (It is not the exact message, I translated it, because I am running a machine which is set to german.)


The "look" of the 3D-PDFs: 

Another thing that I am irritated about is the “look” of the 3D-PDF. The one created with the V8i looks a bit more “shiny” and the one created with CE looks a bit “dull”. We use the same setup for printing the 3D-PDF in V8i and CE. Does anybody have an idea what could cause these differences?

I added two screenshots that show the different looks of the 3D-PDFs. (We imported the print settings from V8i to CE, so they should be the same for both versions).

Screenshots:

(As an example file we just put together some random pipelineworks.)

3D-PDF created with CE (looks a bit dull and not as "shiny" as the one created with V8i).

3D-PDF created with V8i (looks a bit more "shiny" than the one created with CE).


Example Files:

The example files are just a bunch of pipelines thrown together randomly, as we can not show you real projects. 

To see the effects described above it is important that the files have a certain amount of equipment in them, otherwise the difference in loading times is to short to see. That is why the files are relatively big and we had to upload the to the WeTransfer Page.

Here you can find two 3D-PDFs and the DGN file they where both created from, one time using Connect Edition, the other one using V8i.

https://we.tl/t-uPt2bxGlNe

  • Hallo Herr Österreicher, 
    vielen Dank für die Erläuterung. 
    Ich hatte bisher auch immer das Gefühl, dass insbesondere Referenzen beim 3D-PDF-Druck aus der CE anders gehandhabt werden als vorher. Ihre Beobachtung scheint das zu bestätigen.

    Es hat sicher leider bis jetzt nichts neues ergeben. Ein Service Request dazu ist noch offen, dort ist aber seit längerer Zeit nichts passiert.
    Wir arbeiten im Moment weiter mit dem Umweg über die V8i. Das ist wirklich schlecht, allerdings fehlte die Zeit sich wieder intensiver mit dem Problem auseinander zu setzen und solange haben wir uns gesagt, leben wir mit dem Workaround. 


    Mir fällt übrigens gerade auf, dass wir uns seit einigen Posts im englischsprachigen Forum auf Deutsch unterhalten. Wir sollten für weitere Posts wieder aufs Englische zurück gehen, damit auch internationale Leser den Thread nachvollziehen können. 

    -------------------------------------------

    Currently using:

    OpenPlant Modeler - Version: 10.09.00.74

    [MicroStation - Version: 10.14.02.01]

  • I'm a little bit further now, it must be attached references, because if I print the files into a 3D-PDF on my own, it works, slower than with the V8i but the PDF opens afterwards, it also loads a tick longer than the same one created from the V8i.


    but as soon as I make a reference that should be in the model, it breaks down, i.e. we have an existing model of a building in which we build a stage,...
    here it is independent if I reference files or
    Models from the same file - this makes no difference!
    the result is always the same - a PDF that cannot be used


    Ich bin jetzt einen kleinen Schritt weiter, es muss an angehängte Referenzen liegen, denn wenn ich die Dateien für sich alleine in eine 3D-PDF drucke, funktioniert es, zwar langsamer als bei der V8i aber die PDF geht anschließend auf, auch die läd einen Ticken länger als die gleiche die aus der V8i erzeugt wurde.


    sobald ich aber eine Referenz an mache die mit im Modell sein sollen bricht er zusammen, Sprich wir haben ein Bestandsmodell von einem Gebäude in dem wir eine Bühne einbauen,....
    hier ist es unabhängig ob ich Dateien referenziere oder
    Modelle aus der selben Datei - dies macht keinen unterschied!
    der Ergebnis ist immer das Selbe  - eine nicht zu gebrauchende PDF.

  • Hello, Mr. Schilling,
    are there any new findings? Because if you are only allowed to use the Connect Edition and have relatively large building structures, the "no longer" ability to print in a 3D PDF is a significant cut.

    Even our customers asked why we no longer send 3D-PDFs - to be able to discuss upcoming topics faster.

    Greeting

    Edit: I have now contacted the support, too.

    Hallo Herr Schilling,
    gibt es neue Erkenntnisse? Denn wenn man nur noch die Connect Edition benutzen darf und relativ große GebäudeStrukturen hat ist das "nicht mehr" drucken können in eine 3D-PDF ein erheblicher Einschnitt.
    Selbst unsere Kunden fragten, an wieso wir keine 3D-PDFs mehr senden - um anstehende Themen schneller besprechen zu können.

    Gruß

    Edit: ich hab jetzt auch den Support kontaktiert

  • Hello everybody,
    setting the compression to JPG is only useful if you want to create a raster print. For the creation of a 3D-PDF this has no effect

    Thanks for that Daniel

    after a revisit my  files your  quite right about 3dprints, but I set the compression  to jpg as my default for all our drivers so if users have raster maps, aerial photography or large areas then  it does make a big difference for us in file size, and also if its a big area several kilometers printed on relatively small paper ie 1 or 2 meters then the printer resolution wont show the detail that you see on the pdf so lowering the pdf dpi's is also a great help in general pdf file size reduction, creation time pdf opening times and print to paper times, I also would turn off layering in the 3d pdf if possible  to further reduce file sizes... currently we use V8i for everything and only  jump into CE when we have compatibility issues with DWG exrefs> exports> and new datum transforms not available in V8i...

    Lorys

    Started msnt work 1990 - Retired  Nov 2022 ( oh boy am I old )

    But was long time user V8iss10 (8.11.09.919) dabbler CE  update 16 (10.16.00.80) 

    MicroStation user since 1990 Melbourne Australia.
    click link to PM me 

  • Die Frage kann ich leider nicht beantworten. Ich habe derzeit keine DWG zur Verfügung mit der ich es ausprobieren könnte.

    -------------------------------------------

    Currently using:

    OpenPlant Modeler - Version: 10.09.00.74

    [MicroStation - Version: 10.14.02.01]