Print organizer-multiple boundaries

I suspect you must be changing the printer by applying a print style, and that print style contains additional actions -- namely fence-by-shape or another auto-area criteria.

A print style should be thought of as a command script.  When that command script is run in one scenario -- when first creating print definition(s) from a design file -- the script has the ability to instruct Print Organizer to create multiple print definitions.  One for each shape it finds, for example.  Later, if and when that command script is applied to an existing print definition, the ability to create new print definitions doesn't exist.  When applied to an existing print definition, a print style may only modify its properties.

If the command script has instructions that say something like "reset the print area to this range that was obtained from locating a shape element", and multiple ranges turned up in the search, and all that can be done is modify the print area of the individual print definition, then Print Organizer has little choice but to use the first range in the search results.

I believe that's what's happening in your case.  Your print style, in addition to the desired printer, also has automatic print area instructions that, when applied in a 'modify' context, result in the print area always being reset to the first  fence result located.  If that action is performed for all the print definitions in the set, all the print definitions will end up with the same print area.

In most cases, it doesn't make sense to apply a print style that contains automatic print area instructions in any situation other than a default print style or a print style that's manually specified when adding design files to Print Organizer.  It's important to realize that print styles are simply an automation tool -- they don't replace all other functionality in Print Organizer or on the single-Print dialog.  To change the printer, and not do anything else, I would suggest sticking to the File / Print Setup command.  There's not much to be gained by attempting to automate that.

Ok, so in my pre-defined print styles I have the radio button checked to "create one print definition for each matching shape". Are you saying that I should not have that set in the print style but only apply that manually as I am creating the initial set of print defs from that file?

I think there are a few misleading areas with PO. 1) Why have a default printer set-up when you open PO. Would it not make sense for people with multiple printers to set print styles for each printer? 2) Is the "create one print def" radio button being available to set in a print style. When changing a printer from the PO default to another printer resets the print area to a single sheet in a file with multiple boundaries. I think the area should be static at creation unless you go to the advanced tab and check "update from design file".  3) The only other issue I have is the fact that batch print was nice because I could add more plot boundaries in a file and I did not need to worry about batch print finding them. PO is unable to do that. It is not that big of an issue. I can sacrifice that ability to accomodate the other improvements of batch print. It is just a point of being diligent and adding the new print defs to the .pset.  4) It is also my understanding that PO does not add multiple boundaries in order they were created in the file. When placing our multiple sheet borders in V8 2004 I would modify the slot number in reference manager to the order I wanted the sheets plotted in batch print. I think I read that PO does not honor this process. If that is correct, in what order are the boundaries search for and added to PO? I liked the way it worked in batch print.

The second point concerns me because anybody who is not aware of this (because they do not create print defs or run PO enough to remeber settings) can inadvertantly change the default printer and end up with a lot of wasted paper and time. I like the abilty to be able to house one complete job with 1 automated print set. We have plan sets with 500 plan sheets and another 500 cross section sheet. PO gives me what I need but a lot of people do not want to be bothered with thinking about what needs to be done at the printing stage. They want to able to open the .pset and hit print and be done.

Overall I am happy with what PO offers. I realize that the points above may not be able to be addressed but I just needed to give my opinon.

Thnaks,

Mike

1. Print Organizer is a single-document application, not multi-document.  Print Organizer can't open without a print set to display -- empty or populated, just as MicroStation can't open (past the Manager app at least) without a DGN file.  A Print Set object must be associated with a Printer object, thus Print Organizer uses a default printer when creating a new print set (assuming there's not a default print style that sets the printer).  It doesn't always make sense to create a print style for each printer.  Remember a print style is just an automation tool; it isn't a property that's applied to either the print set or print definition.  To associate a new printer driver configuration to a print set, there is a tool to do that.  You don't have to use a print style, and there are reasons not to use a print style, if that print style contains automation commands that aren't always appropriate to run.

2. Perhaps. One could argue that the auto-area-logic of a print style should be ignored in the 'modify' context.  But others might expect it to run to pick up changes to their boundary elements, in the frequent case of one boundary per design model.  Your suggestion of not changing the print area unless 'update from design' is checked is a reasonable one.  I'm reluctant to heartedly endorse it without more thought, as the current behavior has stood the test of time for almost 20 years inside InterPlot.

3. You haven't confirmed it, but I suspect you are following the historic workflow of multiple shapes in a single model to define your print areas.  I believe if you were using individual sheet models to define your print areas, you would probably find Print Organizer easier to use.  Rather than have to re-run a design file scan to locate boundaries and create a entire new set of print definitions every time you added new shape, you could simply drag & drop the sheet model into Print Organizer at the desired insertion row.

4. That's actually one of the biggest complaints about Batch Print, and one of its irrepairable defects that led to the need for a complete replacement.  When creatings prints from shape boundaries, there is no way to control the order of the shapes.  They are printed in the sequence that they are emitted from the design scanner, which is generally the order in which they reside in the DGN file.  If one deleted and recreated a shape element in the middle of the grid, that shape would appear last in the file and get printed last.  There was no way to fix that other than to delete all the shapes and then carefully recreate them in the desired order.  Print Organizer lets you rearrange the print definitions after they have been created, but at the cost of making it harder to modify an existing print set when you add a shape.  In that situation, it's probably easier to just create a new print set.  It's not perfect, but at least Print Organizer provides a solution to the problem that doesn't involve senseless rework of the design file.  And, as I said, the workflow is a lot nicer with separate sheet models.

I don't follow your comment regarding reference logicals.  I can't guarantee it, but I would expect the order in which shape boundaries were found inside Print Organizer to be same as in Batch Print -- seemingly random or not.  I don't recall hearing otherwise.  The only discussion I remember involving reference slot numbers concerned pen table resymbolization of nested references, in this thread: communities.bentley.com/.../41599.aspx

Thansk for all the info Andrew.

Using sheet models in our firm is not going to happen any time soon. My colleagues do not want to change what they have been doing for the past 8+ years. I will just need to be diligent and pick up any changes.

As far as #4. I found a way to add/remove print boundaries in batch print. When we create cross sections we display them all in 1 file. We may have 100 sections in 1 file. We reference our border file in through reference manager 100 times. With each reference there is a slot number assigned. If I needed to add a section in the middle (say between section 49 and 50) I could change the slot number manually of refenerence 50 to 51 down to the end. Then when I reference a new border to cover the added section I could assign it slot number 50 and it would print in order. It was not a common practice and it was only used in rare cases. It's a hard process to follow and takes some time to accomplish.

Thanks,

Mike

I had the same issue you are experiencing, and this is what Bentley told me

The auto-area logic can only produce multiple print  definitions when the print definitions are being created.  When a print style containing auto-area logic is applied to an existing print definition, only the first auto-area result is used.  In other words, a print style applied to an existing print definition will not result in additional print definitions.

A print style needs to be thought of as collection of operations to be performed on a print definition (or as a collection of operations used to create one or more print definitions from a design file).  A print style is *not* a single persistent property of a print definition, and shouldn't be treated as such.  Which operations need to be performed usually depends on the context.  It often does not make sense to define unrelated sets of operations in a single print style.  That is, I would expect one print style -- possibly a default print style -- to define the auto-area operations used to initially populate the print set using auto-area criteria.  Those operations are likely the same regardless of the printer driver being used.  I would expect a different print style be defined that would set the printer driver, if for some reason it was felt that this command would benefit from automation assistance.

So I created a style that sets up the plot shape and created other styles that have just printer info in it not the plot shape so it does not mess up the cross sections.

Bryan