datablock vs. tags

Update, and partial answer to my question:

I see that I can access the tags using the "Review Tags" tool.
I think that would mean they are "regular" tags, and whatever data I choose to add to an element, I can add in the same way. But,

Can I have multiple of these tag types (groups in the element inspector with various data attached)?

The help file seems to have some information to maybe get me going on adding/retrieveing tags through VBA.

Tag Set Definitions

Unknown said:

Can I have multiple of these tag types (groups in the element inspector with various data attached)?

It's not entirely clear what you are asking.

A DGN file can contain more than one tag set definition. You can attach more than one tag set to an element.

Regards, Jon Summers
LA Solutions

Unknown said:

Can I have multiple of these tag types (groups in the element inspector with various data attached)?

It's not entirely clear what you are asking.[/quote]

When investigating an element using the element inspection tool, you will see various groups of information ("General", "Geometry" etc.). One of these group appear to be the data attached as "tags" by inroads to this particular DGN. I was wondering if I could have more than one of these groups added by myself so the tags were neatly ordered in the element inspector.

Thanks for all the hints on what to investigate in the help file together with short and clear comments and the link to your site... :)

Unknown said:

Can I have multiple of these tag types (groups in the element inspector with various data attached)?

It's not entirely clear what you are asking.[/quote]

When investigating an element using the element inspection tool, you will see various groups of information ("General", "Geometry" etc.). One of these group appear to be the data attached as "tags" by inroads to this particular DGN. I was wondering if I could have more than one of these groups added by myself so the tags were neatly ordered in the element inspector.

Thanks for all the hints on what to investigate in the help file together with short and clear comments and the link to your site... :)

I am currently adding a datablock to a cell element (I use cells because all the elements in the cell basically is a representation of the data I have harvested). I think I see the microstation manual hinting that I cannot add tags to cell elements? So before I change my code completely from datablocks to tags, I would like to ask:

Can I add tags to cell elements?

I have tried the examples in the help and managed to attach some kind of tag definition to the DGN, and tagged an element (sorry if my terminology is off!) BUT, I cannot see the tags in the element inspector.. I tried copying what I see in when querying elements generated by inroads but that wasnt enough.

Any clues?

(Note that the four posts above this one, and the first post also has unanswered questions please!)

I have observed that the elements I have generated from inroads also has an x-attribute in the inspector, where as the elements I have tagged myself does not. Indicating a conection between the x-attribute and the showing of the tags in the element inspector. Do you know if that is the case? And do you know how to handle it?

The elements I tag in microstation displays a "linkages" parameter, as do the elements generated by inroads. I do not have inroads running or even installed on my programmin machine, nor can I expect my users to have it.

Thanks in advance,
/Torben

Torben

Yes, you may attach tags to cells or even shared cell elements!

But Don't mix the tag data with x-attribute data paradigm,  these are different things. With mircosation vba you have the possibility to archive both!

But  for me it is not really clear what you like to archive globally!

What is missing in InRoads that you are doing a lot programming yourself. Sure,  and have in mind the civil products (InRoads, GeoPack) are under a huge improvement work by Bentley this days and we can not be sure that the products will work that way it's doing now or in near future (2-3 years). Have you checked the new "civil geometry" and data acquisition tools ?

What do you mean by element inspector the ms "element Info":

like

Hi Frank,

Yes, by Element Inspector I mean precisly what you have shown on the image you attached ("Elementinfos")!
As can be seen in the pictures below, the added tags from inRoads show in a group "Horizontal Alignment" in the element inspector:
How can I mimic this behaviour?

When I inspect elements tagged by inRoads, they display the values in the element inspector in a new group just like "Geometrie" or "Allgemein", but the tags I have managed to add does not display in the element inspector. If I am to switch from using datablock to invisible tags, I would like to know if there is any advantages at all. I expected tags to show up in the element inspector but they do not?!

<rant begin>As for the reason to make my own interface, we cannot wait 2-3 years for the next generation of bloated stuff to be released and then approved by the corporation and installed ;o) Rolling my own quality assurance/data inspection and output routines seems to make much more sence. I also have alot of mixed data that needs to be tied together from various DGNs. Yes it is tailormade for us, but will save us oceans of time once completed. I don't mind if a program has poor tools as long as it has great speed and functions and I can roll my own tools! You just cannot make a set of dataextraction tools to suit everybody! Never, ever!! ;)</rant end>

The Bentley program we are currently using cannot even show us a proper 3D output of our data!!! (Took me a few days but was no real problem)

Regards,
/Torben

- Back tomorrow, Take care :)

Tags & Cells

Unknown said:

Can I add tags to cell elements?

Yes.

The longer answer is: "Yes and yes!" …

• You can tag a cell element (shared or normal) just as you can tag any other tag element

• You can also include tag elements inside a cell definition model

  When a user places an instance of that cell, MicroStation extracts the tag elements and places them in the active model. The tags are associated with the cell element

Regards, Jon Summers
LA Solutions

Hi Thorben,

What you see in "Horizontal Alignment" are not tags, Jon and I talking about. This is a InRoads enhancement to microstation and  the dgn elements. These application data from InRoads are not tags its "user data-linkages:

Use a vanilla Microsation and you can't see the "Horizontal Alignment" with element info. Try to use the old element info tool " analyse element" to see this "data linkages". But to understand tha linkages and to mimic them . You must ask the InRoads Development.

User data from a "InRoads DTM Trianlge" Shape

BTW: Have you checked the RDBMS interface from microsation where you may attach database linkages to dgn elements and work with them.

It's the second way microstation may work with non graphical data.

Thanks Frank.

Then the data from inRoads must be stored twice as I can also clearly see the same information when I use the tag tools. I personally don't condone having the same data stored twice, and simply assumed the Bentley team would also not store the same data twice. Thus I concluded that what I saw in the "element info" was actually the tag data! Ah well, Live and learn I guess :)

I thought I had a vanilla install of v8i (SS3 some older beta version but still) as I don't have any inroads tools available, but I guess there must be some libraries hidden somewhere then.

My conclusion is that I see no reason for switching from using datablock to tags.

Regards,

/Torben

The additional InRoads information in the datablock is only exposed when InRoads is running and even then, often you need the proper ALG or DTM file loaded.

What is written in tags is available always - unless no tags are attached.

In reality, the data is still there only once. What is written in the datablock is just the information InRoads need to connect the graphics to its data as stored in the aforementioned files. As for the data missing from the tags, it would be necessary to add your own tags or some other user data to hold the missing information to allow more feedback.

Even the new Civil Geometry tools require one of the Civil Products to do what they do.

Hi Thorben,

Something I found today: Maybe it can help you:

communities.bentley.com/.../188105.aspx